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Finances / Finanzen » uk.finance » All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399812 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 21:32 |
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Virgils Ghost wrote:
> "Peter Hucker" <no [at] spam.com> wrote in message news:op.tct51m1mwabk2w [at] blue...
> <
> >A dollar to protect a 2 dollar note?
>
> You can already buy RFID tags far cheaper than that, especially when they
> wouldn't need 512kb of storage. A few cents to protect a 500 euro note isn't
> such a bad deal, the UK already applies holograms.
Part of the original post was that a 2D barcode could be scanned by
anyone with a camera, so I am wondering about RFID v barcode. An
advantage of barcodes is that degradation should be obvious. Also
couldn't you destroy the RFID tag by frying it with e.g. high voltage.
Does a technical failure of the tag invalidate the note?
Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation
(scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern,
and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have
1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, you
have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However
if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using
public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the
valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.)
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399813 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 23:20 |
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"Dave" <dwickford [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
<
> Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation
> (scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern,
> and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have
> 1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, you
> have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However
> if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using
> public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the
> valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.)
Notes already include such patterns, though obviously not unique,
scanners and digital photocopiers now have software that detects this
'watermark' and refuses to
http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2004/0119backspin.htm l
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399815 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 23:22 |
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"Virgils Ghost" <no [at] spam.com> wrote in message
news:Agcvg.27330$cl2.6124 [at] fe08.news.easynews.com...
>
> "Dave" <dwickford [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> <
>> Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation
>> (scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern,
>> and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have
>> 1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, you
>> have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However
>> if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using
>> public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the
>> valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.)
>
> Notes already include such patterns, though obviously not unique,
>
> scanners and digital photocopiers now have software that detects this
> 'watermark' and refuses to
.... scan :-
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1232480, 00.html
"The software relies on features built into leading currencies. Latest
banknotes contain a pattern of five tiny circles. On the £20 note, they're
disguised as a musical notation, on the euro they appear in a constellation
of stars; on the new $20 note, the pattern is hidden in the zeros of a
background pattern. Imaging software or devices detect the pattern and
refuse to deal with the image."
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399816 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 23:34 |
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On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:22:01 +0100, Virgils Ghost <no [at] spam.com> wrote:
>
> "Virgils Ghost" <no [at] spam.com> wrote in message
> news:Agcvg.27330$cl2.6124 [at] fe08.news.easynews.com...
>>
>> "Dave" <dwickford [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> <
>>> Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation
>>> (scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern,
>>> and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have
>>> 1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, you
>>> have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However
>>> if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using
>>> public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the
>>> valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.)
>>
>> Notes already include such patterns, though obviously not unique,
>>
>> scanners and digital photocopiers now have software that detects this
>> 'watermark' and refuses to
>
> ... scan :-
>
> http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1232480, 00.html
>
> "The software relies on features built into leading currencies. Latest
> banknotes contain a pattern of five tiny circles. On the £20 note, they're
> disguised as a musical notation, on the euro they appear in a constellation
> of stars; on the new $20 note, the pattern is hidden in the zeros of a
> background pattern. Imaging software or devices detect the pattern and
> refuse to deal with the image."
One of the reasons not to use Adobe software.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Confuscious say: "If you park, don't drink, accidents cause people."
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399817 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 23:35 |
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On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:32:29 +0100, Dave <dwickford [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Virgils Ghost wrote:
>> "Peter Hucker" <no [at] spam.com> wrote in message news:op.tct51m1mwabk2w [at] =
blue...
>> <
>> >A dollar to protect a 2 dollar note?
>>
>> You can already buy RFID tags far cheaper than that, especially when =
they
>> wouldn't need 512kb of storage. A few cents to protect a 500 euro not=
e isn't
>> such a bad deal, the UK already applies holograms.
> Part of the original post was that a 2D barcode could be scanned by
> anyone with a camera, so I am wondering about RFID v barcode. An
> advantage of barcodes is that degradation should be obvious. Also
> couldn't you destroy the RFID tag by frying it with e.g. high voltage.=
> Does a technical failure of the tag invalidate the note?
>
> Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validatio=
n
> (scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern=
,
> and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have
> 1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, yo=
u
> have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However
> if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using
> public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the
> valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.)
How about microwaving it?
-- =
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http:=
//www.petersphotos.com
o
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399818 ] |
Mi, 19 Juli 2006 00:16 |
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Virgils Ghost wrote:
> "Dave" <dwickford [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> <
> > Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation
> > (scanning fibres).
>
> Notes already include such patterns, though obviously not unique,
>
> scanners and digital photocopiers now have software that detects this
> 'watermark' and refuses to
>
>
> http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2004/0119backspin.htm l
This is what I was on about:
http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2005/08/01/the_f ingerprint_of_paper/
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399841 ] |
Mi, 19 Juli 2006 16:10 |
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In article <44bcf78e$0$17989$892e7fe2 [at] authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Miss L. Toe" <missltoemissltoe [at] hotmail.com> writes:
> "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Winter [at] cwi.nl> wrote in message
> news:J2Lp0o.MHM [at] cwi.nl...
....
> > Yes, the original owner was no longer legitimate owner. On the other
> > hand, his insurance would have paid him for the stolen bicycle.
>
> What if he decided not to have insurance ?
Tough luck. He might try to get recompense from the thief, or from the
shop that sold his bicycle.
> (I did hear a rumour once that bicycle theft rings in Amsterdam were
> financed by the new bicycle retailers).
Most are stolen by junks that sell them again.
> (I also heard a rumour that car radio theft rings in the UK were financed by
> car radio shops).
Also those are mostly stolen by junks in the Netherlands. But theft of
those are in the decline as modern radio's are integrated in the
dashboard.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399856 ] |
Do, 20 Juli 2006 03:43 |
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"Peter Hucker" <no [at] spam.com> wrote in message news:op.tcukuvlzwabk2w [at] blue...
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:43:39 +0100, Cynic <cynic_999 [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:28:25 GMT, "Virgils Ghost" <no [at] spam.com> wrote:
>
>> "Dave" <dwickford [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> <
>>> Apparently PDF417 can store 500 characters per square inch (I'm not an
>>> expert in this area, though)
>>
>> And when it's tattered and ripped?
>
> PDF417 uses Solomon Reed error correction of flexible size, so a few
> damaged bits would be OK. Not that I see much point in the exercise
> unless we all have online readers that are able to detect stolen or
> duplicate bar codes at the point we receive the money.
>Perhaps the shops would. I've seen loads (ok ONE) shop with a UV banknote
>tester.
As have I. A chippy actually.
It incorrectly read a real £20 note as counterfeit because it had been
washed.
What do modern detergents contain?
U/V sensitive ingredients.
What do fake note testers check for? The same thing.
All in all useless.
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399864 ] |
Do, 20 Juli 2006 12:44 |
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"Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Winter [at] cwi.nl> wrote in message
news:J2nM2B.Cop [at] cwi.nl...
> In article <44bcf78e$0$17989$892e7fe2 [at] authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>
"Miss L. Toe" <missltoemissltoe [at] hotmail.com> writes:
> > "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Winter [at] cwi.nl> wrote in message
> > news:J2Lp0o.MHM [at] cwi.nl...
> ...
> > > Yes, the original owner was no longer legitimate owner. On the other
> > > hand, his insurance would have paid him for the stolen bicycle.
> >
> > What if he decided not to have insurance ?
>
> Tough luck. He might try to get recompense from the thief, or from the
> shop that sold his bicycle.
>
Why should the shop be any more liable than the customer ?
> > (I did hear a rumour once that bicycle theft rings in Amsterdam were
> > financed by the new bicycle retailers).
>
> Most are stolen by junks that sell them again.
>
But who do they sell them to ?
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399872 ] |
Do, 20 Juli 2006 13:46 |
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In article <44bf5ed4$0$17971$892e7fe2 [at] authen.yellow.readfreenews.net> "Miss L. Toe" <missltoemissltoe [at] hotmail.com> writes:
>
> "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Winter [at] cwi.nl> wrote in message
> news:J2nM2B.Cop [at] cwi.nl...
> > In article <44bcf78e$0$17989$892e7fe2 [at] authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>
> "Miss L. Toe" <missltoemissltoe [at] hotmail.com> writes:
> > > "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.Winter [at] cwi.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:J2Lp0o.MHM [at] cwi.nl...
> > ...
> > > > Yes, the original owner was no longer legitimate owner. On the other
> > > > hand, his insurance would have paid him for the stolen bicycle.
> > >
> > > What if he decided not to have insurance ?
> >
> > Tough luck. He might try to get recompense from the thief, or from the
> > shop that sold his bicycle.
>
> Why should the shop be any more liable than the customer ?
Well, if the shop owner can show he bought the bicycle in good faith he
is not liable, but the person he bought it from. But I think that will
be tough to show. (He might have checked, for instance, the list of
stolen bicycles.)
> > > (I did hear a rumour once that bicycle theft rings in Amsterdam were
> > > financed by the new bicycle retailers).
> >
> > Most are stolen by junks that sell them again.
>
> But who do they sell them to ?
The man on the street.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
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| Re: All banknotes to have a 2D barcode? [message #399885 ] |
Do, 20 Juli 2006 21:39 |
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On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:43:43 +0100, boo_star <me [at] privacy.net> wrote:
> "Peter Hucker" <no [at] spam.com> wrote in message news:op.tcukuvlzwabk2w [at] blue...
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:43:39 +0100, Cynic <cynic_999 [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:28:25 GMT, "Virgils Ghost" <no [at] spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Dave" <dwickford [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> <
>>>> Apparently PDF417 can store 500 characters per square inch (I'm not an
>>>> expert in this area, though)
>>>
>>> And when it's tattered and ripped?
>>
>> PDF417 uses Solomon Reed error correction of flexible size, so a few
>> damaged bits would be OK. Not that I see much point in the exercise
>> unless we all have online readers that are able to detect stolen or
>> duplicate bar codes at the point we receive the money.
>
>> Perhaps the shops would. I've seen loads (ok ONE) shop with a UV banknote
>> tester.
>
> As have I. A chippy actually.
>
> It incorrectly read a real £20 note as counterfeit because it had been
> washed.
>
> What do modern detergents contain?
>
> U/V sensitive ingredients.
>
> What do fake note testers check for? The same thing.
>
> All in all useless.
Did you get into trouble?
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Officer Patrick McGuire of the New York City Police Department answers a call on his radio and reports to the scene of a car accident in the Queens-Midtown Tunnel.
Officer McGuire notes that a new Buick had its front end merged with the rear end of a Chrysler.
The driver of the Buick was Father Francis O'Boyle; the driver of the Chrysler was Rabbi Isaac Goldstein.
After Officer McGuire verifies that Rabbi Goldstein has suffered no physical injuries in the accident, he walks back to survey the damages to each vehicle.
Then, Officer McGuire walks over to Father O'Boyle and asks him: "Tell me, Father, just how fast was that Rabbi going when he backed into you?"
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