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Finances / Finanzen » uk.finance » Nervous First Time Buyer
| Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373614] |
Mi, 15 März 2006 20:18 |
|
I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewed.
However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as it
should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, would it
be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can check
that everything works?
I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been some
very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing, so I'm
not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if I'm just
worrying unnecessarily.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Snuggles.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373615 ] |
Mi, 15 März 2006 20:39 |
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Snuggles wrote:
> I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewed.
> However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
> everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as it
> should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
>
> Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, would it
> be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can check
> that everything works?
Dead right it is. Check everything you need to, if they try to put you
off it may indicate problems. You're forking out a lot of money so make
sure everything is to your satisfaction. If you have any particular
concerns mention it to the surveyor for him to check out.
> I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been some
> very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing, so I'm
> not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if I'm just
> worrying unnecessarily.
Make sure everythings working and look for leaks, damp patches etc.
Take as long as you need you don't want to regret it later. Again, any
concerns get a specialist (surveyor, builder) to look at it) at the
very least it may give you room to negotiate the price down.
Are you sure you want to buy now ? IMO we are at the top of a house
price bubble and a major correction downwards is in the offing. Waiting
may save you money, again IMO, others on this forum would probably
disagree ............... it's your decision.
If you want to read more about the housing market (mainly from a
'bearish' perspective) look at some of the threads on the house price
crash forum ..............
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?s=3ba7ec8e8 da3fff93da98bbfc731c1de&showforum=22
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373616 ] |
Mi, 15 März 2006 21:00 |
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Snuggles wrote:
> I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewed.
> However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
> everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as it
> should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
>
> Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, would =
it
> be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can che=
ck
> that everything works?
>
> I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been s=
ome
> very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing, so I=
'm
> not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if I'm just
> worrying unnecessarily.
>
> Any advice would be very much appreciated.
This is a difficult area, and you are as likely to go wrong by being
over-cautious as you are by being cautious.
Try and look at the property objectively. Wander around it and talk to
the neighbours if you can. Get a feel for the owner and the quality of
the neighbourhood. I wouldn't personally trust a surveyor's report, so
I'd be wary of commissioning one for =A3500 or whatever it costs.
Do your own surveying. Does the roof sag? Are there cracks in the
walls? Maybe some new rendering to cover them over?
Be suspicious of new decorating. Are the windowsills rotting? Has the
property been loved and cherished or neglected? Switching off the
heating during the recent ice age might hint at the latter. Or just as
easily it might not.
Go with your instincts.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373617 ] |
Mi, 15 März 2006 21:25 |
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Troy Steadman wrote:
> Snuggles wrote:
> > I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewe=
d=2E
> > However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
> > everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as=
it
> > should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
> >
> > Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, woul=
d it
> > be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can c=
heck
> > that everything works?
> >
> > I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been=
some
> > very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing, so=
I'm
> > not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if I'm j=
ust
> > worrying unnecessarily.
> >
> > Any advice would be very much appreciated.
>
> This is a difficult area, and you are as likely to go wrong by being
> over-cautious as you are by being cautious.
>
> Try and look at the property objectively. Wander around it and talk to
> the neighbours if you can. Get a feel for the owner and the quality of
> the neighbourhood. I wouldn't personally trust a surveyor's report, so
> I'd be wary of commissioning one for =A3500 or whatever it costs.
>
> Do your own surveying. Does the roof sag? Are there cracks in the
> walls? Maybe some new rendering to cover them over?
>
> Be suspicious of new decorating. Are the windowsills rotting? Has the
> property been loved and cherished or neglected? Switching off the
> heating during the recent ice age might hint at the latter. Or just as
> easily it might not.
>
> Go with your instincts.
Look long and hard at the environs. Down the road from here in Surbiton
there were dozens of boarded up shops and derelict buildings. That
should have put us off buying, right?
Now the boarded up shops are expensive bars and restaurants. Try to buy
in a place that is going up, as opposed to the 50% of places that are
(relative to other places) going down.
Congestion Charge
Flood Plain - *very* important - check the DOE site
Transport - roads, rail, airport.
Future development or likely development
Schools - are they good?
Read the council's "Unitary Development Plan" to see what it plans for
the area
Mine shafts and landfill and gypsy sites and potential for any of this.
..=2E.Then trust your instinct.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373620 ] |
Mi, 15 März 2006 22:04 |
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"Troy Steadman" <troysteadman [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1142454319.944321.210120 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Troy Steadman wrote:
> Snuggles wrote:
snip
there is not much to add to the excellent advice troy has provided.
1) you may want to look at www.upmystreet.com to find out what kind of
people live in the vicinity.
it is free to register on the site and you enter a postcode to find out
more. you can even see what price nearby properties have been changing hands
for.
2) consider looking at the house again with friends or parents who could see
things you may have missed
3) visit the place at night to see if it is serene - without gangs of drunks
/ hooded chavs roaming the streets.
4) be brave. as troy indicated, you can easily talk yourself out of
proceeding. look to the future - your own home and the freedom.
5) be sure to have a contingency reserve of cash for unforeseen expenses.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373621 ] |
Mi, 15 März 2006 22:19 |
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First thing to remember is that the seller wants to sell the property.
He is most likely not interested what happens after the sale, and will
not tell you about faults (if any). Even if you ask direct questions,
the answers will be either "I am not sure" or "Oh yes , it was working
fine when I last used it". Either of which is of no use to you.
You should, if only for piece of mind, engage a building surveyor to
report on the property. A full building survey (aprox =A3700) may not be
required, as the property is quite new, so a 'Homebuyer Survey and
Valuation' (aprox =A3350) may suffice. Don't rely on the mortgage
valuation survey, as it is just that - a valuation.
You not only want to know if things are working and in good repair now,
but also if things will need replacing in the short and medium term. If
you commit all your money to the property now, you want to be sure of
no major repairs or replacements in the near future. A survey will give
you this information, which you can them use to negotiate a discount
with the seller.
Heating, plumbing, drainage should be tested and appliances turned on.
The roof should be inspected for leaks or rot. Double glazing units
check for blown seals, rooms checked for mould and condensation or
other dampness. Any flat roofs should be checked for age (when last
refelted) and wear
Structural problems may be fairly obvious, but less obvious things like
a faulty gas flue or wiring problem will not be so easy to see, but
costly to remedy.
dg
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373628 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 00:21 |
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Hello snuggles. That is cool to hear you are planning to buy a house at
a high market price when financially stretched. Please stay in contact
as when the house prices crash I may put in an offer to the mortgage
company when it repossesses your house and you are left in financial
ruin. Nothing like cashing in on another guys misfortune ;)
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373629 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 00:34 |
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Snuggles wrote:
> I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewed.
> However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
> everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as it
> should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
>
> Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, would
> it be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can
> check that everything works?
Not really, see below.
> I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been
> some very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing,
> so I'm not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if
> I'm just worrying unnecessarily.
If the heating is off, the plumbing system has probably been drained
to prevent frost damage, and so getting it all fired up is a non-trivial
exercise. Remember that you are as yet at a stage with no commitment,
and to expect the seller or the seller's agents to go through this
rigmarole for every potential purchaser who may or may not go on to
put in an offer would be a monumental waste of time and effort.
I don't know what standard practice in English house buying contracts
is, but up here in kiltland it's pretty normal for one of the offer
conditions (which is usually accepted) to be that all the services are
in full working order. That is enough to ensure that they either will
be, or else must be repaired at the seller's expense. So there not
really anything to worry about.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373633 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 01:50 |
|
Where does the OP say that it is at a high market price?
Where is the connection between the house value dropping and the OP not
being able to afford the mortgage repayments?
Why does a house repossession mean financial ruin?
How have you determined that a poster with the name 'Snuggles' is a
guy?
Financially streteched does not mean 'can't afford'. Property is still
the best investment with high short term gains. If the OP can afford to
buy then that would be a good investment. Buy property, give up a few
trips to the pub etc if needed, and make thousands in a few months.
Seems like a good deal to me.
dg
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373640 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 10:06 |
|
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:18:15 -0000, "Snuggles" <snuggles [at] yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
>I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewed.
>However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
>everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as it
>should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
>
>Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, would it
>be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can check
>that everything works?
>
>I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been some
>very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing, so I'm
>not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if I'm just
>worrying unnecessarily.
>
>Any advice would be very much appreciated.
>
>Snuggles.
>
If you can't afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
you won't be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
--
Get money off vouchers for everything
http://www.moneyoffvouchers.co.uk
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373641 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 09:58 |
|
"Ronald Raygun" <no.spam [at] localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:%v1Sf.36663$wl.29534 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Snuggles wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewed.
>> However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
>> everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as
>> it
>> should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
>>
>> Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, would
>> it be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can
>> check that everything works?
>
> Not really, see below.
It wouldn't deter me from putting in an offer, since the offer isn't binding
and is only a small first step. But I probably would ask to see the central
heating turned on if I had concerns about it, since one would expect there
to be no objection to that, and it only takes about half an hour before you
can tell if the radiators are heating up.
20 years old is nothing. The cost of replacing the fan in a boiler, or a
pump in the system, is very modest compared with other potential expenses
and repairs. There might be damp patches, rotten woodwork, leaking flat
roof, slipped tiles, a bath or shower that causes water to drip through the
ceiling below, etc.
>
>> I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been
>> some very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing,
>> so I'm not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if
>> I'm just worrying unnecessarily.
>
> If the heating is off, the plumbing system has probably been drained
> to prevent frost damage, and so getting it all fired up is a non-trivial
> exercise. Remember that you are as yet at a stage with no commitment,
> and to expect the seller or the seller's agents to go through this
> rigmarole for every potential purchaser who may or may not go on to
> put in an offer would be a monumental waste of time and effort.
>
> I don't know what standard practice in English house buying contracts
> is, but up here in kiltland it's pretty normal for one of the offer
> conditions (which is usually accepted) to be that all the services are
> in full working order. That is enough to ensure that they either will
> be, or else must be repaired at the seller's expense. So there not
> really anything to worry about.
>
In English conveyancing it is usually a standard question along the lines of
"please confirm that the central heating is in proper working order" to
which the seller might give an evasive answer. If it turned out to be
defective you would have no claim (the usual rule being caveat emptor)
unless you can show that the seller was aware of the defect.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373648 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 13:05 |
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If you can afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
you will be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
"mogga" <di [at] NOSPAMPLEASEmogga.com> wrote in message
news:ljai125flb8aq7fivkq0ngjun24s2clp5b [at] 4ax.com...
| On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:18:15 -0000, "Snuggles" <snuggles [at] yahoo.co.uk>
| wrote:
|
| >I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewed.
| >However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
| >everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as
it
| >should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
| >
| >Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, would
it
| >be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can
check
| >that everything works?
| >
| >I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been
some
| >very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing, so
I'm
| >not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if I'm
just
| >worrying unnecessarily.
| >
| >Any advice would be very much appreciated.
| >
| >Snuggles.
| >
|
| If you can't afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
| you won't be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
|
| --
| Get money off vouchers for everything
| http://www.moneyoffvouchers.co.uk
|
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373649 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 13:09 |
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On 15 Mar 2006 15:21:05 -0800, "Mabon Dane" <mdane [at] h2009.com> wrote:
>Hello snuggles. That is cool to hear you are planning to buy a house at
>a high market price when financially stretched. Please stay in contact
>as when the house prices crash I may put in an offer to the mortgage
>company when it repossesses your house and you are left in financial
>ruin. Nothing like cashing in on another guys misfortune ;)
Yep deffo Turtill
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373656 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 17:56 |
|
> If you can afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
> you will be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
> | If you can't afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
> | you won't be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
And finally, and one I prefer, if there's anything wrong with the electrics
and heating then the money you saved by not paying for a survey will pay for
the repairs if anything is broken.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373667 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 20:51 |
|
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:18:15 -0000, "Snuggles" <snuggles [at] yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
>I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewed.
>However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
>everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as it
>should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
>
>Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, would it
>be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can check
>that everything works?
>
>I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been some
>very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing, so I'm
>not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if I'm just
>worrying unnecessarily.
>
>Any advice would be very much appreciated.
>
>Snuggles.
>
I would ask to see some documentary proof of when the heating system
was last serviced.
You should be able during a viewing to switch on the heating and at
least check that all the radiators are hot with no cold spots.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373670 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 21:15 |
|
<nospam [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
news:dvc5c2$nep$1 [at] nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> If you can afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
>> you will be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
>
>> | If you can't afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
>> | you won't be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
>
> And finally, and one I prefer, if there's anything wrong with the
> electrics and heating then the money you saved by not paying for a survey
> will pay for the repairs if anything is broken.
>
Indeed. IME a surveyors report is so likely to be full of caveats, weasel
words,and get outs as to be essentially useless, so that if the heating
doesnt work, the best use you'll get out of having a report is that you can
burn it to keep warm. So make sure to ask for a paper copy, not an
electronic one.
--
Tumbleweed
email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373671 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 21:17 |
|
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:56:34 +0000 (UTC), <nospam [at] nospam.com> wrote:
>> If you can afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
>> you will be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
>
>> | If you can't afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
>> | you won't be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
>
>And finally, and one I prefer, if there's anything wrong with the electrics
>and heating then the money you saved by not paying for a survey will pay for
>the repairs if anything is broken.
>
Not if it needs rewiring and a new boiler.
They should be able to look over the electrics and see how new they
are but this won't bear any relation to whether they work or are safe.
Someone else has mentioned records of central heating servicing but
these may not be available.
--
Get money off vouchers for everything
http://www.moneyoffvouchers.co.uk
|
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373672 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 21:29 |
|
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:15:08 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
<thisaccountneverread [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
><nospam [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:dvc5c2$nep$1 [at] nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>> If you can afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
>>> you will be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
>>
>>> | If you can't afford a surveyor to look at electrics and heating then
>>> | you won't be able to afford the repairs when everything is broken.
>>
>> And finally, and one I prefer, if there's anything wrong with the
>> electrics and heating then the money you saved by not paying for a survey
>> will pay for the repairs if anything is broken.
>>
>
>Indeed. IME a surveyors report is so likely to be full of caveats, weasel
>words,and get outs as to be essentially useless, so that if the heating
>doesnt work, the best use you'll get out of having a report is that you can
>burn it to keep warm. So make sure to ask for a paper copy, not an
>electronic one.
Do they not have electrical surveyors?
--
Get money off vouchers for everything
http://www.moneyoffvouchers.co.uk
|
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373674 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 22:44 |
|
In message <%v1Sf.36663$wl.29534 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Ronald
Raygun <no.spam [at] localhost.localdomain> writes
>Snuggles wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking of putting in an offer on a property I have recently viewed.
>> However, as a financially stretched first timer, I want to know that
>> everything in the property (which is approx 20 years old) is working as it
>> should. However, it is currently empty, and everything is turned off.
>>
>> Never having done this before, and not knowing what the "norm" is, would
>> it be reasonable for me to ask that services are turned on so that I can
>> check that everything works?
>
>Not really, see below.
>
>> I am particularly concerned that the heating is off and there have been
>> some very cold nights recently. I know absolutely nothing about plumbing,
>> so I'm not sure how I would know if there was a potential problem, or if
>> I'm just worrying unnecessarily.
>
>If the heating is off, the plumbing system has probably been drained
>to prevent frost damage, and so getting it all fired up is a non-trivial
>exercise. Remember that you are as yet at a stage with no commitment,
>and to expect the seller or the seller's agents to go through this
>rigmarole for every potential purchaser who may or may not go on to
>put in an offer would be a monumental waste of time and effort.
>
Agreed! As agents, it was usually repossessions where everything was
drained down and turned off, so at the first request to turn things on,
we would ask the lender, they would say no - take it or leave it, and
that was the end of the matter. Also the same with most probates and
landlords, (in fact most empty drained etc. properties).
What this meant was that the eventual buyer, (brave or otherwise), would
often get a good deal, as the not so brave, (and nervous), would avoid
these houses like the plague.
>I don't know what standard practice in English house buying contracts
>is, but up here in kiltland it's pretty normal for one of the offer
>conditions (which is usually accepted) to be that all the services are
>in full working order. That is enough to ensure that they either will
>be, or else must be repaired at the seller's expense. So there not
>really anything to worry about.
>
Standard practice is generally that it is for the buyer to satisfy
themselves that things work, or dont work, and once exchange of
contracts has taken place, it's over to the buyer, warts and all!
--
Richard Faulkner
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373675 ] |
Do, 16 März 2006 22:55 |
|
In message <47snl9Fh3pa4U1 [at] individual.net>, The Todal
<deadmailbox [at] beeb.net> writes
>If it turned out to be defective you would have no claim (the usual
>rule being caveat emptor) unless you can show that the seller was aware
>of the defect.
Even if they were aware, it depends on the way they have given their
"evasive" answer.
Also, dont forget that part of the reason that "we" give evasive answers
is because buyers will often turn "honest" against a seller.
--
Richard Faulkner
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373700 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 14:50 |
|
"Richard Faulkner" wrote
> ... it was usually repossessions where everything was drained
> down and turned off, so at the first request to turn things on, we
> would ask the lender, they would say no - take it or leave it...
> ...
> Standard practice is generally that it is for the buyer to
> satisfy themselves that things work, or dont work...
Hmmm, I gotta ask -- if the seller won't allow stuff
to be turned on, then how on earth do you expect the
buyer to possibly "satisfy themselves that things work" ?!!
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373702 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 15:13 |
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Tim wrote:
> "Richard Faulkner" wrote
> > ... it was usually repossessions where everything was drained
> > down and turned off, so at the first request to turn things on, we
> > would ask the lender, they would say no - take it or leave it...
> > ...
> > Standard practice is generally that it is for the buyer to
> > satisfy themselves that things work, or dont work...
>
> Hmmm, I gotta ask -- if the seller won't allow stuff
> to be turned on, then how on earth do you expect the
> buyer to possibly "satisfy themselves that things work" ?!!
It's the gamble you take Tim. Most people are honest and sometimes you
just have to trust them, otherwise you can miss out. Why this obsession
with the central heating? It's the flat roofs I'd be worrying about.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373703 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 15:25 |
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> > "Richard Faulkner" wrote
> > > ... it was usually repossessions where everything was drained
> > > down and turned off, so at the first request to turn things on, we
> > > would ask the lender, they would say no - take it or leave it...
> > > ...
> > > Standard practice is generally that it is for the buyer to
> > > satisfy themselves that things work, or dont work...
> >
> "Tim" wrote:
> > Hmmm, I gotta ask -- if the seller won't allow stuff
> > to be turned on, then how on earth do you expect the
> > buyer to possibly "satisfy themselves that things work" ?!!
>
"Troy Steadman" wrote
> It's the gamble you take Tim.
Of course, and I totally agree on that point.
But to suggest that "...it is for the buyer to satisfy
themselves that things work", is a bit rich when
the seller is not allowing the buyer to do just that!
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373705 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 16:26 |
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"Richard Faulkner" wrote
> Standard practice is generally that it is for the
> buyer to satisfy themselves that things work...
I can just see the conversation now :-
Buyer: "Does that work?"
Seller: "Ah, you need to check that yourself!"
Buyer: "OK, can I turn it on please?"
Seller: "Nope, absolutely NOT!!"
Buyer: "Hmmmm."
....
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373706 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 17:24 |
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In message <dveerv$5d2$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Tim
<me [at] home.uk> writes
>"Richard Faulkner" wrote
>> ... it was usually repossessions where everything was drained
>> down and turned off, so at the first request to turn things on, we
>> would ask the lender, they would say no - take it or leave it...
>> ...
>> Standard practice is generally that it is for the buyer to
>> satisfy themselves that things work, or dont work...
>
>Hmmm, I gotta ask -- if the seller won't allow stuff
>to be turned on, then how on earth do you expect the
>buyer to possibly "satisfy themselves that things work" ?!!
>
I dont make the rules <g> - I guess a seller who wont turn things on is
saying "take it or leave it", and is willing to accept that they may not
get as much as they would if they accommodated all requests.
--
Richard Faulkner
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373708 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 18:11 |
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"Richard Faulkner" <richard [at] estate.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Wqe1CUaQLuGEFwa6 [at] estate.demon.co.uk...
> In message <dveerv$5d2$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Tim
> <me [at] home.uk> writes
>>"Richard Faulkner" wrote
>>> ... it was usually repossessions where everything was drained
>>> down and turned off, so at the first request to turn things on, we
>>> would ask the lender, they would say no - take it or leave it...
>>> ...
>>> Standard practice is generally that it is for the buyer to
>>> satisfy themselves that things work, or dont work...
>>
>>Hmmm, I gotta ask -- if the seller won't allow stuff
>>to be turned on, then how on earth do you expect the
>>buyer to possibly "satisfy themselves that things work" ?!!
>>
>
> I dont make the rules <g> - I guess a seller who wont turn things on is
> saying "take it or leave it", and is willing to accept that they may not
> get as much as they would if they accommodated all requests.
A seller who isn't willing to switch on the central heating is probably
behaving unreasonably, unless he has had the entire system drained and does
not want to pay a plumber to fill the system and then drain it again
afterwards. If that is the case perhaps the buyer could offer to contribute
to the cost of this work.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373710 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 18:57 |
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The Todal wrote:
> A seller who isn't willing to switch on the central heating is probably
> behaving unreasonably, unless he has had the entire system drained and
> does not want to pay a plumber to fill the system and then drain it again
> afterwards. If that is the case perhaps the buyer could offer to
> contribute to the cost of this work.
Quite, but a buyer would be a fool to volunteer to pay for this,
unless he is certain his offer will be accepted. This is for the
same reason that you folk down south don't employ a surveyor before
making a binding offer.
Would it not be much simpler to *assume* all the systems are in working
order, to determine the price offered on that basis, and to make it a
condition of the contract that in fact they will be working at completion
date or the seller will be responsible for paying to have them fixed?
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373711 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 19:08 |
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On 17 Mar 2006 06:13:05 -0800, "Troy Steadman"
<troysteadman [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Tim wrote:
>> "Richard Faulkner" wrote
>> > ... it was usually repossessions where everything was drained
>> > down and turned off, so at the first request to turn things on, we
>> > would ask the lender, they would say no - take it or leave it...
>> > ...
>> > Standard practice is generally that it is for the buyer to
>> > satisfy themselves that things work, or dont work...
>>
>> Hmmm, I gotta ask -- if the seller won't allow stuff
>> to be turned on, then how on earth do you expect the
>> buyer to possibly "satisfy themselves that things work" ?!!
>
>It's the gamble you take Tim. Most people are honest and sometimes you
>just have to trust them, otherwise you can miss out. Why this obsession
>with the central heating? It's the flat roofs I'd be worrying about.
1986 we bought a house from the local building society. We asked the
agent about the central heating system and got a verbal assurance that
it worked. When we got in we couldn't get it to work. A heating
engineer we called in condemned it. Neither BS or agent would take
responsibility. We had to shell out for a new central heating boiler
and gas fire.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373712 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 19:02 |
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In message <4808uiFhpehvU1 [at] individual.net>, The Todal
<deadmailbox [at] beeb.net> writes
>
>"Richard Faulkner" <richard [at] estate.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:Wqe1CUaQLuGEFwa6 [at] estate.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <dveerv$5d2$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, Tim
>> <me [at] home.uk> writes
>>>"Richard Faulkner" wrote
>>>> ... it was usually repossessions where everything was drained
>>>> down and turned off, so at the first request to turn things on, we
>>>> would ask the lender, they would say no - take it or leave it...
>>>> ...
>>>> Standard practice is generally that it is for the buyer to
>>>> satisfy themselves that things work, or dont work...
>>>
>>>Hmmm, I gotta ask -- if the seller won't allow stuff
>>>to be turned on, then how on earth do you expect the
>>>buyer to possibly "satisfy themselves that things work" ?!!
>>>
>>
>> I dont make the rules <g> - I guess a seller who wont turn things on is
>> saying "take it or leave it", and is willing to accept that they may not
>> get as much as they would if they accommodated all requests.
>
>A seller who isn't willing to switch on the central heating is probably
>behaving unreasonably, unless he has had the entire system drained and does
>not want to pay a plumber to fill the system and then drain it again
>afterwards. If that is the case perhaps the buyer could offer to contribute
>to the cost of this work.
My impression was that the C/H was drained down - if it isnt, then of
course it is simple to switch things on and see what happens.
I used to deal with lots of empty properties and they were usually
closed down so as to protect them from frost and squatters - i.e. all
water drained, inc. C/H, elec and gas turned off, (easy to turn on), and
usually no bulbs <g>
--
Richard Faulkner
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373721 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 23:56 |
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Richard Faulkner wrote:
> I used to deal with lots of empty properties and they were usually
> closed down so as to protect them from frost and squatters - i.e. all
> water drained, inc. C/H, elec and gas turned off, (easy to turn on), and
> usually no bulbs <g>
Digging up all the tulips, crocuses, and daffodils is going just
a touch too far, don't you think?
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373722 ] |
Fr, 17 März 2006 23:58 |
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AlanG wrote:
> 1986 we bought a house from the local building society. We asked the
> agent about the central heating system and got a verbal assurance that
> it worked. When we got in we couldn't get it to work. A heating
> engineer we called in condemned it. Neither BS or agent would take
> responsibility. We had to shell out for a new central heating boiler
> and gas fire.
You should have sued the pair of them jointly.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373725 ] |
Sa, 18 März 2006 02:00 |
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On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:58:16 GMT, Ronald Raygun
<no.spam [at] localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>AlanG wrote:
>
>> 1986 we bought a house from the local building society. We asked the
>> agent about the central heating system and got a verbal assurance that
>> it worked. When we got in we couldn't get it to work. A heating
>> engineer we called in condemned it. Neither BS or agent would take
>> responsibility. We had to shell out for a new central heating boiler
>> and gas fire.
>
>You should have sued the pair of them jointly.
The law was not framed adequately at that time for such an action to
be a sure success although I'd be more ready to do so in the same
circumstances now.
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373729 ] |
Sa, 18 März 2006 13:05 |
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"Ronald Raygun" wrote
> ... you folk down south don't employ a
> surveyor before making a binding offer.
Did you get something the wrong way round here?
The English ("south of the border"!) don't usually
make a binding offer (ie "exchange contracts")
until after they've employed the surveyor...
"Ronald Raygun" wrote
> Would it not be much simpler to *assume* all the systems
> are in working order, to determine the price offered on
> that basis, and to make it a condition of the contract that
> in fact they will be working at completion date or the
> seller will be responsible for paying to have them fixed?
I suppose it may be difficult for the seller, after having vacated
and then the buyer suddenly saying "this don't work!",
to prove that the systems *did* work at completion...
[Dishonest buyers might sabotage the central heating and then try
to obtain a brand-spanking new system, paid for by the seller!]
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| Re: Nervous First Time Buyer [message #373731 ] |
Sa, 18 März 2006 13:46 |
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Tim wrote:
> "Ronald Raygun" wrote
>> ... you folk down south don't employ a
>> surveyor before making a binding offer.
>
> Did you get something the wrong way round here?
Sorry. Replace " binding" with "n".
Point is that when you "make an offer" you don't really,
and therefore an "acceptance" isn't really either, and
the whole system is a pig's breakfast.
> The English ("south of the border"!) don't usually
> make a binding offer (ie "exchange contracts")
> until after they've employed the surveyor...
Fine. The traditional Scottish system involved making
proper binding offers (i.e. capable of being accepted)
from the outset, and therefore surveyors were engaged
prior to making an offer which might well fail to be
accepted, thus wasting many survey fees. More recently
the habit of making offsers "subject to survey" has caught
on, in full knowledge that this proviso would be totally
unacceptable to the seller. But the way it has been made
to work is that if the seller is otherwise minded to go
ahead, a qualified (i.e. conditional) acceptance will be
given, the condition being that the buyer remove the
"subject to survey" condition of his original offer.
This works in practice because a surveyor can be instructed
at very short notice, and give an immediate verbal report
sufficient for the buyer to make a yes/no decision, all
within the deadline allowed by the seller within which the
buyer must accept the seller's offer to accept the buyer's
offer.
> "Ronald Raygun" wrote
>> Would it not be much simpler to *assume* all the systems
>> are in working order, to determine the price offered on
>> that basis, and to make it a condition of the contract that
>> in fact they will be working at completion date or the
>> seller will be responsible for paying to have them fixed?
>
> I suppose it may be difficult for the seller, after having vacated
> and then the buyer suddenly saying "this don't work!",
> to prove that the systems *did* work at completion...
>
> [Dishonest buyers might sabotage the central heating and then try
> to obtain a brand-spanking new system, paid for by the seller!]
Fair point, but that wouldn't work. Quite apart from the fact that
the dishonest buyer risks falling foul of forensic evidence which
could prove sabotage, the seller would not be liable for any element
of betterment, but only, even when the system is so beyond repair
that replacement is the only viable option, for such reasonable
proportion of the replacement cost as would be equivalent to what
a repair might have cost had it been economically viable. This
sounds very woolly, but typically the problem is likely to be
unavailability of spares for an obsolete model, and in such case
an equivalent cost of repairing the nearest-equivalent non-obsolete
model might be taken.
Besides, the sale being in the bag, it would be in the seller's
interest to make sure (via his agent) that the system is in fact
working on handover day, and to arrange for the buyer's agent to
witness this.
Ideally, of course, the system would be subject to a maintenance
contract which is transferrable, so the whole issue would be a
non-problem.
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