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Finances / Finanzen » uk.finance » Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours
Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386517] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 09:39
Crowley  
Brown's so-called "economic miracle" is unravelling revealing it to be
all smoke and mirrors fuelled by record levels of debt and a record
trade deficit, both still increasing.
There's much worse to come .............

Times Online May 09, 2006
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2172951,00.html

Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours
By Lee Glendinning

The Government was today urged to take action to rescue British
industry after three companies today announced closures and outsourcing
leading to the loss of 7,300 jobs.

A series of grim announcements stunned workers and led to warnings of a
jobs
meltdown, especially in manufacturing.

The largest cut was at communications giant NTL which unveiled plans to
cut its workforce by 6,000 following a =A33.4 billion merger with cable
peer Telewest.

Home shopping firm Littlewoods Shop Direct announced that it was
closing three warehouses with the loss of 1,200 jobs.

And food giant Heinz said production of HP sauce would be moved from
Birmingham to abroad, meaning a loss of 125 jobs.

Union leaders have called for government intervention to stem the tide
of jobs from Britain to developing countries.

NTL has said that it hopes a large number of the job cuts could be
achieved through natural wastage, voluntary severance and a reduction
in part time staff. However there are likely to be up to 1,000
compulsory redundancies.

Steve Burch, the chief executive, said the company was making a
concerted effort to keep the number of compulsories to an absolute
minimum.

Meanwhile, Liverpool-based retailer Littlewoods said it planned to
close packing warehouses in Eccles, Wigan and Worcester in 2007. The
closure was blamed on "excess capacity".

Littlewoods employs around 700 staff in Wigan, 460 in Worcester and 40
in Eccles, and a further 650 at a surviving warehouse in Shaw.

The Union of Shops, Distributive and Allied Workers said the move was
devastating for its members.

Val Pugh, the national officer, said: "Our members at both sites have
done nothing wrong and have proved themselves to be very adaptable as
the home shopping market in the UK has continued to decline."

A final blow to industry came with the announcement that the Heinz
plant in Aston Birmingham - which has housed a manufacturing facility
since 1875 - is likely to close by March next year.

John Jordan, of the T&GWU, said that he had demanded a meeting with
management to explain: "why the company has broken its word to a loyal
workforce."

Heinz, which brought the HP business from Danone last year, said the
plant in Aston operated three days a week and spare capacity was
available at its site in Holland.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=3 D29658
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386518 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 09:46
Miop  
Crowley wrote:

>
> The largest cut was at communications giant NTL which unveiled plans to
> cut its workforce by 6,000 following a =A33.4 billion merger with cable
> peer Telewest.

Hang on a minute..aren't they the only two cable operators, which means
that now there is only one?
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386519 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 09:51
Chris X  
"Maria" <info [at] tajarts.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1147247192.870489.254310 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Crowley wrote:

>> The largest cut was at communications giant NTL which unveiled plans to
>> cut its workforce by 6,000 following a £3.4 billion merger with cable
>> peer Telewest.

> Hang on a minute..aren't they the only two cable operators, which means
> that now there is only one?

That's capitalism/globalism - the slow train to the same destination that
marxism leads to.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386520 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 09:53
Chris X  
"Chris X" <Chris_x [at] postmaster.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j5edncmEw5nFBvzZRVny3g [at] giganews.com...
> "Maria" <info [at] tajarts.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1147247192.870489.254310 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Crowley wrote:
>
>>> The largest cut was at communications giant NTL which unveiled plans to
>>> cut its workforce by 6,000 following a £3.4 billion merger with cable
>>> peer Telewest.
>
>> Hang on a minute..aren't they the only two cable operators, which means
>> that now there is only one?
>
> That's capitalism/globalism - the slow train to the same destination that
> marxism leads to.

Just to add, not that it's really necessary for those of you "in the know" -
it's about to hit the buffers in a most spectacular fashion.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386521 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 09:54
Miop  
Chris X wrote:
> "Maria" <info [at] tajarts.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1147247192.870489.254310 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Crowley wrote:
>
> >> The largest cut was at communications giant NTL which unveiled plans to
> >> cut its workforce by 6,000 following a =A33.4 billion merger with cable
> >> peer Telewest.
>
> > Hang on a minute..aren't they the only two cable operators, which means
> > that now there is only one?
>
> That's capitalism/globalism - the slow train to the same destination that
> marxism leads to.

I thought that was what the monopolies and mergers commission was for -
how did this get past them?

NB and how come NTL is taking over everything when it has been proven
to be loss-making and incompetent? I've never managed to work out how
in a 'free' market, such companies (and there seem to be many) can be
considered 'successful' - they are just 'there'.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386522 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 09:58
Chris X  
"Maria" <info [at] tajarts.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1147247678.654395.169580 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...

Chris X wrote:
> "Maria" <info [at] tajarts.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1147247192.870489.254310 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Crowley wrote:
>
> >> The largest cut was at communications giant NTL which unveiled plans to
> >> cut its workforce by 6,000 following a £3.4 billion merger with cable
> >> peer Telewest.
>
> > Hang on a minute..aren't they the only two cable operators, which means
> > that now there is only one?
>
>> That's capitalism/globalism - the slow train to the same destination that
>> marxism leads to.

> I thought that was what the monopolies and mergers commission was for -
> how did this get past them?

Well, blind eyes can be turned at any time, of course. Especially when the
fundamental flaws of the system they are supposed to sustain are staring
them straight in the face :)
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386523 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 10:26
Derek Geldard  
On 10 May 2006 00:46:32 -0700, "Maria" <info [at] tajarts.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Hang on a minute..aren't they the only two cable operators, which means
>that now there is only one?

Any individual would only ever have had a choice of one cable
operator, so they were never really in competition.

Cable TV in the UK was a daft idea anyway involving digging up
pavements and pulling cables round housing estates. We were just
following behind the continentals (lots of whom live in apartment
blocks) years late.

We had SKY sattelite TV years before cable came round, and now there's
digital terrestrial and digital sattelite to choose from not to
mention TV via broadband.

DG
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386524 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 10:38
jim  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 09:26:41 +0100, Derek ^
<usenet [at] miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Cable TV in the UK was a daft idea anyway involving digging up
>pavements and pulling cables round housing estates. We were just
>following behind the continentals (lots of whom live in apartment
>blocks) years late.
>
>We had SKY sattelite TV years before cable came round, and now there's
>digital terrestrial and digital sattelite to choose from not to
>mention TV via broadband.

digital terrestrial is simply too low quality, it's too low quality
for existing TV's let alone high definition.

TV via broadband, is exactly like Cable TV and in direct competition
with it, and both require digging up roads. (cable TV can be delivered
over wireless links just like broadband given the day when there's
high enough bandwidth in them to overcome the low quality issue other
broadcast mechanisms have.

Jim.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386526 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 11:22
Derek Geldard  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 08:38:28 GMT, jim [at] jibbering.com (Jim Ley) wrote:

>On Wed, 10 May 2006 09:26:41 +0100, Derek ^
><usenet [at] miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Cable TV in the UK was a daft idea anyway involving digging up
>>pavements and pulling cables round housing estates. We were just
>>following behind the continentals (lots of whom live in apartment
>>blocks) years late.
>>
>>We had SKY sattelite TV years before cable came round, and now there's
>>digital terrestrial and digital sattelite to choose from not to
>>mention TV via broadband.
>
>digital terrestrial is simply too low quality, it's too low quality
>for existing TV's let alone high definition.

It didn't have to be like that.

>
>TV via broadband, is exactly like Cable TV and in direct competition
>with it, and both require digging up roads.

If the copper pair is not there already.

Our estate built in 1976 provided every house with a copper pair.

>(cable TV can be delivered
>over wireless links just like broadband given the day when there's
>high enough bandwidth in them to overcome the low quality issue other
>broadcast mechanisms have.

In Holland they are talking about/already have? 1 HDTV channel and 3
standard definition channels over a single copper pair.

I simply make the point that it was not really sensible to dig up all
the pavements to pull cables. As witnessed by the number of houses on
our estate which have Sky TV dishes and no cable connection.

DG
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386527 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 11:21
Mel Rowing  
Chris X wrote:
> "Maria" <info [at] tajarts.co.uk> wrote in message

> > Hang on a minute..aren't they the only two cable operators, which means
> > that now there is only one?
>
> That's capitalism/globalism - the slow train to the same destination that
> marxism leads to.

Perhaps the learned gentleman will explain to us how
gloabalism/capitalism will deliver the means of production to the
state/people?
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386528 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 11:24
Chris X  
"Mel Rowing" <mel.rowing [at] btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1147252887.838107.274790 [at] e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> Chris X wrote:
>> "Maria" <info [at] tajarts.co.uk> wrote in message
>
>> > Hang on a minute..aren't they the only two cable operators, which means
>> > that now there is only one?
>>
>> That's capitalism/globalism - the slow train to the same destination that
>> marxism leads to.
>
> Perhaps the learned gentleman will explain to us how
> gloabalism/capitalism will deliver the means of production to the
> state/people?

It won't, nor does/did marxism. The destination I'm referring to is utter
poverty, hopelessness and misery.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386529 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 11:36
jim  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 10:22:13 +0100, Derek ^
<usenet [at] miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 May 2006 08:38:28 GMT, jim [at] jibbering.com (Jim Ley) wrote:
>>digital terrestrial is simply too low quality, it's too low quality
>>for existing TV's let alone high definition.
>
>It didn't have to be like that.

Really? by what, appropriating huge other areas of spectrum currently
being used for other purposes to provide the available bandwidth?

>>TV via broadband, is exactly like Cable TV and in direct competition
>>with it, and both require digging up roads.
>
>If the copper pair is not there already.
>
>Our estate built in 1976 provided every house with a copper pair.

Strange how much you see BT people digging up roads then....

Jim.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386530 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 11:42
hummingbird  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 08:38:28 GMT 'Jim Ley'
posted this onto uk.politics.misc:


>digital terrestrial is simply too low quality, it's too low quality
>for existing TV's let alone high definition.

Not sure why you say that. I appreciate there are serious bandwidth
constraints on terrestrial digital in the UK but I've got it on my
computer and the quality far exceeds that of my TV-in-the-corner
which is still running on analogue.

>TV via broadband, is exactly like Cable TV and in direct competition
>with it, and both require digging up roads. (cable TV can be delivered
>over wireless links just like broadband given the day when there's
>high enough bandwidth in them to overcome the low quality issue other
>broadcast mechanisms have.

I thought TV via broadband was about delivering TV on the Internet.

--
"These days, you can be a Labour democrat, a Conservative democrat
or a Liberal Democrat, but you can't be a New Labour democrat because
that is a contradiction in terms." ...Henry Porter
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1769398,00.h tml
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386531 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 11:49
jim  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 10:42:27 +0100, hummingbird
<OPRBMDQMZNLV [at] spammotel.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 May 2006 08:38:28 GMT 'Jim Ley'
>>digital terrestrial is simply too low quality, it's too low quality
>>for existing TV's let alone high definition.
>
>Not sure why you say that. I appreciate there are serious bandwidth
>constraints on terrestrial digital in the UK but I've got it on my
>computer and the quality far exceeds that of my TV-in-the-corner
>which is still running on analogue.

then I suggest you get a better TV aerial, mpeg artifacts on
terrestrial digital are extremely noticeable, sport on ITV2 was always
the biggest joke as one of the most demanding encoding needs combined
with the lowest bandwidth channel.

>I thought TV via broadband was about delivering TV on the Internet.

Nope, Homechoice etc. it's about TV for your TV. TV on the internet
is somewhat different.

Jim.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386532 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 13:18
hummingbird  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 09:49:29 GMT 'Jim Ley'
posted this onto uk.politics.misc:

>On Wed, 10 May 2006 10:42:27 +0100, hummingbird
><OPRBMDQMZNLV [at] spammotel.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 10 May 2006 08:38:28 GMT 'Jim Ley'
>>>digital terrestrial is simply too low quality, it's too low quality
>>>for existing TV's let alone high definition.
>>
>>Not sure why you say that. I appreciate there are serious bandwidth
>>constraints on terrestrial digital in the UK but I've got it on my
>>computer and the quality far exceeds that of my TV-in-the-corner
>>which is still running on analogue.


>then I suggest you get a better TV aerial, mpeg artifacts on
>terrestrial digital are extremely noticeable, sport on ITV2 was always
>the biggest joke as one of the most demanding encoding needs combined
>with the lowest bandwidth channel.

Did you misread my comments?
Why do you think I need to get a better aerial?

There's nowt wrong with it - it's in direct line of sight with Crystal
Palace - and I don't get artifacts on digital terrestrial on my PC
using a Nebula DigiTV card. I said the digital quality is far better
than my analogue TV off the same aerial (some of that is probably
my main TV getting a bit old).

Afaik the problem with digital terrestrial was twofold: a) too many
channels originally thereby limiting the bandwidth available for each
channel and b) poor quality black boxes. Both have been sorted now
I believe.

>>I thought TV via broadband was about delivering TV on the Internet.
>
>Nope, Homechoice etc. it's about TV for your TV. TV on the internet
>is somewhat different.

hhmmm.

--
"These days, you can be a Labour democrat, a Conservative democrat
or a Liberal Democrat, but you can't be a New Labour democrat because
that is a contradiction in terms." ...Henry Porter
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1769398,00.h tml
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386533 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 13:24
jim  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 12:18:00 +0100, hummingbird
<OPRBMDQMZNLV [at] spammotel.com> wrote:

>Why do you think I need to get a better aerial?

To improve the quality of your analogue system, as your expectations
of digital are obviously very low.

>Afaik the problem with digital terrestrial was twofold: a) too many
>channels originally thereby limiting the bandwidth available for each
>channel and b) poor quality black boxes. Both have been sorted now
>I believe.

How did they suddenly magic up more bandwidth? there are more
channels now than when it started.

Jim.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386538 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 15:41
hummingbird  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 11:24:53 GMT 'Jim Ley'
posted this onto uk.politics.misc:

>On Wed, 10 May 2006 12:18:00 +0100, hummingbird
><OPRBMDQMZNLV [at] spammotel.com> wrote:
>
>>Why do you think I need to get a better aerial?
>
>To improve the quality of your analogue system, as your expectations
>of digital are obviously very low.

Not really. My PC digital picture is excellent.
As said, the analogue TV is ~10 years old and was never very good.


>>Afaik the problem with digital terrestrial was twofold: a) too many
>>channels originally thereby limiting the bandwidth available for each
>>channel and b) poor quality black boxes. Both have been sorted now
>>I believe.
>
>How did they suddenly magic up more bandwidth? there are more
>channels now than when it started.

Is that right? I dunno. I thought when the BBC took over Freeview,
they cut the number of channels or used some different technology.
For sure they have increased the numbers able to pick it up.

--
"These days, you can be a Labour democrat, a Conservative democrat
or a Liberal Democrat, but you can't be a New Labour democrat because
that is a contradiction in terms." ...Henry Porter
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1769398,00.h tml
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386541 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 16:42
Tumbleweed  
"Maria" <info [at] tajarts.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1147247678.654395.169580 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...


>I thought that was what the monopolies and mergers commission was for -
>how did this get past them?


whats to get past? There is and effectively only ever has been, one cable
company for any given household. But that is in competition with telephone
companies, wireless companies, television companies etc. So there is no
monopoly anyway.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386542 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 16:44
Tumbleweed  
"Jim Ley" <jim [at] jibbering.com> wrote in message
news:4461a5c0.494790390 [at] news.individual.net...
> On Wed, 10 May 2006 09:26:41 +0100, Derek ^
> <usenet [at] miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Cable TV in the UK was a daft idea anyway involving digging up
>>pavements and pulling cables round housing estates. We were just
>>following behind the continentals (lots of whom live in apartment
>>blocks) years late.
>>
>>We had SKY sattelite TV years before cable came round, and now there's
>>digital terrestrial and digital sattelite to choose from not to
>>mention TV via broadband.
>
> digital terrestrial is simply too low quality, it's too low quality
> for existing TV's let alone high definition.
>


Depends where you live, I have seen it with excellent quality and not so
good. Its also dependent upon the compression used per channel, not the fact
its digital per se.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386546 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 18:02
jim  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:44:47 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
<thisaccountneverread [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

>Depends where you live, I have seen it with excellent quality and not so
>good.

No, the bandwidth is consistent across the country, there may indeed
be problems with not getting enough information, but that would apply
to analogue to, so is basically irrelevant.

> Its also dependent upon the compression used per channel, not the fact
>its digital per se.

erm, the compression is specifically relevant to the fact it's
digital.

Jim.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386547 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 18:27
allan tracy  
> >
> > > Hang on a minute..aren't they the only two cable operators, which means
> > > that now there is only one?
> >
> >> That's capitalism/globalism - the slow train to the same destination that
> >> marxism leads to.
>
> > I thought that was what the monopolies and mergers commission was for -
> > how did this get past them?
>
> Well, blind eyes can be turned at any time, of course. Especially when the
> fundamental flaws of the system they are supposed to sustain are staring
> them straight in the face :)

......and especially when there is probably not enough business to
sustain even one cable company in the UK market place, always was a
bloody daft idea.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386550 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 18:33
allan tracy  
>
> Heinz, which brought the HP business from Danone last year, said the
> plant in Aston operated three days a week and spare capacity was
> available at its site in Holland.
>

Interesting how we seem to get both sorts of job cuts in the UK.

The sort that says you're too bloody expensive so we're f**king off to
China and the sort that says it's easier and cheaper to get rid of you
than our boys back in Holland.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386613 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 21:44
Tumbleweed  
"Jim Ley" <jim [at] jibbering.com> wrote in message
news:44620e36.521532750 [at] news.individual.net...
> On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:44:47 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
> <thisaccountneverread [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Depends where you live, I have seen it with excellent quality and not so
>>good.
>
> No, the bandwidth is consistent across the country, there may indeed
> be problems with not getting enough information, but that would apply
> to analogue to, so is basically irrelevant.

Not irrelevant at all. The poorer the signal the more error correction and
the more artifacts creep in and the poorer the picture. I know at least one
place where the quality is without a doubt better on digital than analogue.
Same TV, same arial, you can flip between analogue and digital, the digital
picture quality is much better, no arguments or doubt.

>
>> Its also dependent upon the compression used per channel, not the fact
>>its digital per se.
>
> erm, the compression is specifically relevant to the fact it's
> digital.
>

Yebbut the compression level applied is arbitrary and isnt the same for each
channel (or doesnt have to be, dunno if this is the case with terrestrial
but it is for satellite). Sky play with this, their premium channels have
lower compression than others. The quality is significantly better on those
channels. Wouldnt surprise me if they l play that trick with HD as well, so
at least part of the quality increase will be due to lowered compression
(and probably better compression) rather than the inherently increased
resolution.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386615 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 21:48
jim  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:44:39 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
<thisaccountneverread [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Jim Ley" <jim [at] jibbering.com> wrote in message
>> On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:44:47 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
>> <thisaccountneverread [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Depends where you live, I have seen it with excellent quality and not so
>>>good.
>>
>> No, the bandwidth is consistent across the country, there may indeed
>> be problems with not getting enough information, but that would apply
>> to analogue to, so is basically irrelevant.
>
>Not irrelevant at all. The poorer the signal the more error correction and
>the more artifacts creep in and the poorer the picture. I know at least one
>place where the quality is without a doubt better on digital than analogue.
>Same TV, same arial, you can flip between analogue and digital, the digital
>picture quality is much better, no arguments or doubt.

And I know lots of places which simply cannot maintain a digital
signal at all, but have fine analogue reception, of course you can't
actually compare the two as they are using different parts of the
spectrum which will be effected differently.

>Yebbut the compression level applied is arbitrary and isnt the same for each
>channel (or doesnt have to be, dunno if this is the case with terrestrial
>but it is for satellite). Sky play with this, their premium channels have
>lower compression than others. The quality is significantly better on those
>channels.

So despite the least bandwidth sky channel having more bandwidth
available than the highest bandwidth Freeview, you can still see the
difference between individual sky channels, yet claim freeview ones
are good quality - what are you watching?

Jim.
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386617 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 22:01
Tumbleweed  
"Jim Ley" <jim [at] jibbering.com> wrote in message
news:4462430e.535060890 [at] news.individual.net...
> On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:44:39 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
> <thisaccountneverread [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>"Jim Ley" <jim [at] jibbering.com> wrote in message
>>> On Wed, 10 May 2006 15:44:47 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
>>> <thisaccountneverread [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Depends where you live, I have seen it with excellent quality and not so
>>>>good.
>>>
>>> No, the bandwidth is consistent across the country, there may indeed
>>> be problems with not getting enough information, but that would apply
>>> to analogue to, so is basically irrelevant.
>>
>>Not irrelevant at all. The poorer the signal the more error correction and
>>the more artifacts creep in and the poorer the picture. I know at least
>>one
>>place where the quality is without a doubt better on digital than
>>analogue.
>>Same TV, same arial, you can flip between analogue and digital, the
>>digital
>>picture quality is much better, no arguments or doubt.
>
> And I know lots of places which simply cannot maintain a digital
> signal at all, but have fine analogue reception, of course you can't
> actually compare the two as they are using different parts of the
> spectrum which will be effected differently.
>
>>Yebbut the compression level applied is arbitrary and isnt the same for
>>each
>>channel (or doesnt have to be, dunno if this is the case with terrestrial
>>but it is for satellite). Sky play with this, their premium channels have
>>lower compression than others. The quality is significantly better on
>>those
>>channels.
>
> So despite the least bandwidth sky channel having more bandwidth
> available than the highest bandwidth Freeview, you can still see the
> difference between individual sky channels, yet claim freeview ones
> are good quality - what are you watching?
>


Well, thast just the way it is, there may be theories about what the results
should be but I can only speak to what I see. re what program, digital v
analogue, BBC or ITV. Both are definitely better on digital. The arial in
question, BTW, is almost in line of sight to the transmitter so you'd expect
a pretty good picture either way.(this isnt at my house)

I have to say I was surprised as I thought the bigger number of channels
would come at the expense of quality but certainly not in this case. OTOH I
cant get digital terrestrial at all where I live (Reading area) though it is
available in some areas nearby and I have seen a lot of 'blockiness' when
round a friends house who had it.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
Re: Meltdown warnings as Britain loses 7,300 jobs in 24 hours [message #386623 ] Mi, 10 Mai 2006 22:17
hummingbird  
On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:44:39 +0100 'Tumbleweed'
posted this onto uk.politics.misc:


>Yebbut the compression level applied is arbitrary and isnt the same for each
>channel (or doesnt have to be, dunno if this is the case with terrestrial
>but it is for satellite).

It is also for terrestrial digital (Freeview) - and for audio.
My PC TV card produces lots of info which show this.

>Sky play with this, their premium channels have
>lower compression than others. The quality is significantly better on those
>channels. Wouldnt surprise me if they l play that trick with HD as well, so
>at least part of the quality increase will be due to lowered compression
>(and probably better compression) rather than the inherently increased
>resolution.

--
"These days, you can be a Labour democrat, a Conservative democrat
or a Liberal Democrat, but you can't be a New Labour democrat because
that is a contradiction in terms." ...Henry Porter
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1769398,00.h tml
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