| Finding destination bank details [message #390278] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 13:43 |
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If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is it
possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
order can then be put on that account.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390279 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 13:48 |
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"C. Señor" <halfanorange [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.05.21.11.42.01.519343 [at] gmail.com...
> If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is it
> possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
> sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
> order can then be put on that account.
>
No that would be disclosing information.
If there was a problem your bank would give you a copy of front and back of
cheque but it is highly unlikely that this information would be on it.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390281 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 14:17 |
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In message <x7udncK5svg3zu3ZRVnyqQ [at] bt.com>, Eric Jones
<ejones999 [at] btinternet.com> writes
>
>"C. Señor" <halfanorange [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:pan.2006.05.21.11.42.01.519343 [at] gmail.com...
>> If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is it
>> possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
>> sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
>> order can then be put on that account.
>>
>No that would be disclosing information.
>If there was a problem your bank would give you a copy of front and back of
>cheque but it is highly unlikely that this information would be on it.
Things have changed since my day and you are no doubt more up to date on
this than me Eric, but wouldnt at least the collecting bank details be
on the cheque? Also, as a party to the cheque doesnt the drawer have a
right to know what happened to it?
--
John Boyle
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390284 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 14:53 |
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C. Señor wrote:
> If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is it
> possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
> sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
> order can then be put on that account.
You can get a copy of the paid cheque for a fee. That will certainly show
you the bank and sort code of the account it was paid into, which may well
be enough to get a third party debt order on the account.
I did on one occasion manage to get a copy of the paying in slip used to pay
the cheque into the account, which I was able to use to prove in legal
proceedings that they had received the payment which was disputed in the
case. That would contain the account number.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390285 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 15:02 |
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C. Señor wrote:
> If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is it
> possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
> sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
> order can then be put on that account.
For what reason and on what grounds would you be wanting to have a
third party debt order put on that account?
Bear in mind that the account in question need not be related in any
way to your cheque's payee.
Suppose I sell you double glazing and you pay me by cheque.
I then buy a van from Arthur Daley, who is happier to take your
cheque (endorsed by me) today than my hollow promise to pay cash
next week.
You then discover a fatal defect in my glazing and I agree to give you
a refund but plead poverty. You might then have a legitimate reason to
wish to seek to arrest *my* bank account, but surely not Arthur's.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390293 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 20:00 |
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"Ronald Raygun" <no.spam [at] localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:VxZbg.72946$wl.31684 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> C. Señor wrote:
>
>> If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is
>> it
>> possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
>> sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
>> order can then be put on that account.
>
> For what reason and on what grounds would you be wanting to have a
> third party debt order put on that account?
>
> Bear in mind that the account in question need not be related in any
> way to your cheque's payee.
>
> Suppose I sell you double glazing and you pay me by cheque.
> I then buy a van from Arthur Daley, who is happier to take your
> cheque (endorsed by me) today than my hollow promise to pay cash
> next week.
>
> You then discover a fatal defect in my glazing and I agree to give you
> a refund but plead poverty. You might then have a legitimate reason to
> wish to seek to arrest *my* bank account, but surely not Arthur's.
>
The cheques act has been amended. You can only pay a cheque into an account
of the payee these days. Endorsing the back does not change this.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390294 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 20:03 |
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"john boyle" <john [at] johnboyle1.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:A7WKkdO$oFcEFwZB [at] johnboyle1.demon.co.uk...
> In message <x7udncK5svg3zu3ZRVnyqQ [at] bt.com>, Eric Jones
> <ejones999 [at] btinternet.com> writes
>>
>>"C. Señor" <halfanorange [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:pan.2006.05.21.11.42.01.519343 [at] gmail.com...
>>> If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is
>>> it
>>> possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
>>> sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
>>> order can then be put on that account.
>>>
>>No that would be disclosing information.
>>If there was a problem your bank would give you a copy of front and back
>>of
>>cheque but it is highly unlikely that this information would be on it.
>
> Things have changed since my day and you are no doubt more up to date on
> this than me Eric, but wouldnt at least the collecting bank details be on
> the cheque? Also, as a party to the cheque doesnt the drawer have a right
> to know what happened to it?
> --
> John Boyle
John, cheques in the clearings are no longer sent to branches but are held
in a central place. They are no longer stamped with a crossing stamp either.
There will be a line of numbers electronically printed on the back of the
cheque but I do not know whether a layman (or even a bank clerk) would be to
interpret them as a sort code and account number.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390298 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 21:37 |
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In message <aqGdnYs9H_zrNu3ZRVnyjw [at] bt.com>, Eric Jones
<ejones999 [at] btinternet.com> writes
>John, cheques in the clearings are no longer sent to branches but are held
>in a central place. They are no longer stamped with a crossing stamp either.
>There will be a line of numbers electronically printed on the back of the
>cheque but I do not know whether a layman (or even a bank clerk) would be to
>interpret them as a sort code and account number.
Thanks Eric, I knew about the cheques no longer being physically
presented and the lack of crossing stamp but I thought that line of
numbers would be more fruitful!
There MUST be an audit trail though, otherwise the parties to the
clearing would never get paid!
--
John Boyle
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390300 ] |
So, 21 Mai 2006 22:03 |
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In message <DbqdnUBOZvZkN-3ZRVnygA [at] bt.com>, Eric Jones
<ejones999 [at] btinternet.com> writes
>
>The cheques act has been amended. You can only pay a cheque into an account
>of the payee these days. Endorsing the back does not change this.
Technically Eric, that isn't correct. You can still endorse a cheque to
as many holders as you like. All that the Cheques Act 1992 did was that
with regard to cheques crossed 'a/c payee only', such cheques became
'non transferable' and became only valid to the parties thereto, thereby
removing the protection collecting bankers once enjoyed from the Bills
of Exchange Act 1882 and extending the restrictions contained in s81 of
the Bills of Exchange Act to cover this particular restrictive crossing
in addition to the 'not negotiable' crossing. This means that when
collecting a cheque bearing the crossing 'a/c payee only' for a party
other than the payee a collecting banker can not develop the paramount
status of 'holder in due course' and therefore loses the protection such
title previously provided.
Therefore a collecting banker CAN collect a third party cheque with an
'a/c payee' crossing but it does so at its own risk. That is how those
cheque cashing outfits work, they can do it by indemnifying their
collecting bank against any future claim. Such a risk is assessed by the
bank in a similar way to any other contingent liability facility the
bank may provide.
Now that cheques seem always to be printed with the restrictive crossing
'a/c payee' it has become common practice to refuse third party cheques
point blank, but that is a risk management decision, not a decision in
law, the act of collecting such a cheque would not be illegal and is not
prohibited.
--
John Boyle
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390320 ] |
Mo, 22 Mai 2006 12:39 |
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C. Señor wrote:
> If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is it
> possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
> sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
> order can then be put on that account.
I recently had to get a copy of a cheque that I had written from my bank
to prove payment (due to a cock-up by the recipient). There was enough
info printed on the back of the cheque to identify the sort-code of the
bank and possibly the account. The sort-code could be the bank it was
paid into or the account-holding sort code (if different), but since it
was a branch with a close connection to the payee (geographically and
probably account-holding), I didn't have to dig further as providing a
copy of the cheque to the recipient caused enough of a retraction
masquerading as an apology to avoid further serious humble-pie eating on
his part.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390321 ] |
Mo, 22 Mai 2006 12:47 |
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Allan Gould wrote:
> I recently had to get a copy of a cheque that I had written from my bank
> to prove payment (due to a cock-up by the recipient). There was enough
> info printed on the back of the cheque to identify the sort-code of the
> bank and possibly the account. The sort-code could be the bank it was
> paid into or the account-holding sort code (if different), but since it
> was a branch with a close connection to the payee (geographically and
> probably account-holding), I didn't have to dig further as providing a
> copy of the cheque to the recipient caused enough of a retraction
> masquerading as an apology to avoid further serious humble-pie eating on
> his part.
I hope he paid the fee, if any, charged by the bank for providing the copy.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390325 ] |
Mo, 22 Mai 2006 14:05 |
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Allan Gould <invalid [at] invalid.invalid> wrote:
> C. Señor wrote:
>> If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is it
>> possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
>> sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
>> order can then be put on that account.
>
> I recently had to get a copy of a cheque that I had written from my bank
> to prove payment (due to a cock-up by the recipient). There was enough
> info printed on the back of the cheque to identify the sort-code of the
> bank and possibly the account. The sort-code could be the bank it was
> paid into or the account-holding sort code (if different), but since it
> was a branch with a close connection to the payee (geographically and
> probably account-holding), I didn't have to dig further as providing a
> copy of the cheque to the recipient caused enough of a retraction
> masquerading as an apology to avoid further serious humble-pie eating on
> his part.
Come to think of it, the account number wouldn't even be needed for a
third party debt order. As long as the issuing bank is known all the bank
needs is the address and they can find it themself.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390326 ] |
Mo, 22 Mai 2006 14:41 |
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On Sun, 21 May 2006 11:43:53 GMT, C. Señor <halfanorange [at] gmail.com>
wrote:
>If I write someone a cheque, once it's been paid into a bank account is it
>possible to ask my bank to tell me the account that it was paid in (ie.
>sort code, account number)? The purpose would be so a third party debt
>order can then be put on that account.
Some banks ask you to write your account number on the back of a
cheque before paying it in, and there have been times when I've seen a
cashier write it on when I've forgotten to do so. If you asked your
bank to retrieve a copy of the back of the cheque from the archive
you'd see that information. Of course, if the payee was trying to
conceal his account details from you he would try to avoid that
happening.
Chris
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390390 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 13:40 |
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Ronald Raygun wrote:
> Allan Gould wrote:
>
[snip]
> I hope he paid the fee, if any, charged by the bank for providing the copy.
>
I don't appear to have had to pay to get a copy of the cheque.
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| Re: Finding destination bank details [message #390406 ] |
Di, 23 Mai 2006 21:55 |
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john boyle wrote:
> In message <aqGdnYs9H_zrNu3ZRVnyjw [at] bt.com>, Eric Jones
> <ejones999 [at] btinternet.com> writes
>
> >John, cheques in the clearings are no longer sent to branches but are held
> >in a central place. They are no longer stamped with a crossing stamp either.
> >There will be a line of numbers electronically printed on the back of the
> >cheque but I do not know whether a layman (or even a bank clerk) would be to
> >interpret them as a sort code and account number.
>
> Thanks Eric, I knew about the cheques no longer being physically
> presented and the lack of crossing stamp but I thought that line of
> numbers would be more fruitful!
>
> There MUST be an audit trail though, otherwise the parties to the
> clearing would never get paid!
> --
> John Boyle
As I recall the back of the cheque gets various things printed on it:
(a) "document identifier number" which AFAIK applies to both halves of
the set - and so presumably can be used for audit purposes
(b) "RETURNS TO XX-XX-XX", which i presume is analogous to something
which used to be stamped on? We (HSBC) print our central returns unit
sort code, however of course this starts 40, but presumably deals with
First Direct as well
(c) there is some other detail that i've never used, but i think its
the sort code of the branch that the cheque is paid in via, along with
the date, but i'm not sure
Expect there to be a delay in getting hold of a copy at least for a
little time yet as, it is literaly a case of someone retrieving a the
microfisch from storage and copying it. 10 days is pretty normal.
Ian
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