| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368329] |
Do, 02 März 2006 19:54 |
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You can ask but I suspect HMRC might have little sympathy and they
certainly will want interest and a penalty for late payment. They
might also feel justified in asking what you did with the obviously
large sum of money you got from the sale of your shares. Why didn't
you put some of it aside to pay your CGT? After all, if they give you
credit it's our (the rest of us') money that they are lending you!
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368334 ] |
Do, 02 März 2006 21:32 |
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"SandalsMan" <jbenator [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141325649.094214.34410 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> You can ask but I suspect HMRC might have little sympathy
I agree, the sum is too large, the period too long, and the
tax has become due because of an acquisition of 'real'
folding money so their view will be that the recipient should
have held back the bit that didn't actually belong to them.
> and they
> certainly will want interest
I presumed the OP is expecting this. It will probably be
less that the cost of borrowing elsewhere (another reason
why they won't advance it).
> and a penalty for late payment.
I am sure that there is no penalty for a pre-arranged late
payment.
> They
> might also feel justified in asking what you did with the obviously
> large sum of money you got from the sale of your shares. Why didn't
> you put some of it aside to pay your CGT? After all, if they give you
> credit it's our (the rest of us') money that they are lending you!
precisely.
tim
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368342 ] |
Do, 02 März 2006 22:37 |
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>I am sure that there is no penalty for a pre-arranged late
>payment.
I don't think there is any such thing as a pre-arranged late payment.
If you send your return in late you get an automatic penalty and if you
pay the tax due late there is an automatic penalty plus interest. The
best you can hope is that HMRC does not press you for payment (ie they
don't take proceedings to recover the money you should have paid so
long as you keep up the instalment plan that you have agreed with
them). I don't think they have any discretion to waive the interest or
penalty just because you told them you didn't have the money.
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368344 ] |
Do, 02 März 2006 23:54 |
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"SandalsMan" <jbenator [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141335455.073311.64940 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> >I am sure that there is no penalty for a pre-arranged late
>>payment.
>
> I don't think there is any such thing as a pre-arranged late payment.
> If you send your return in late you get an automatic penalty and if you
> pay the tax due late there is an automatic penalty plus interest. The
> best you can hope is that HMRC does not press you for payment (ie they
> don't take proceedings to recover the money you should have paid so
> long as you keep up the instalment plan that you have agreed with
> them). I don't think they have any discretion to waive the interest or
> penalty just because you told them you didn't have the money.
Ah, your're referring to the 100 quid for being late, not the "up to"
100% of tax due for non disclosure that I was thinking of.
You're probably right, but 100 quid in 70 grand isn't going to make
much difference.
tim
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368345 ] |
Do, 02 März 2006 23:01 |
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>Ah, your're referring to the 100 quid for being late, not the "up to"
>100% of tax due for non disclosure that I was thinking of.
>You're probably right, but 100 quid in 70 grand isn't going to make
>much difference.
The 100 quid for being late is for submitting your return late. That's
not what we are talking about here. We are talking about sending the
return in but paying late (the two things are separate). If the
payment is late there is a penalty (as well as interest) and I *think*
the penalty for late payment IS tax geared. I suspect it will be a lot
more than 100 quid.
The 'up to 100%' of the tax due for non-disclosure is another matter
entirely. That is where you submit a return and miss off some income
fraudulently or negligently. Then you can be in serious trouble; if
you aren't prosecuted you will have interest plus a tax geared penalty
of, as you say, up to 100%.
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368346 ] |
Do, 02 März 2006 23:02 |
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Oh, I forgot to add: PLUS a full scale investigation of all of your
financial affairs over many years!
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368349 ] |
Do, 02 März 2006 23:44 |
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SandalsMan wrote:
> Oh, I forgot to add: PLUS a full scale investigation of all of your
> financial affairs over many years!
Oh well, it's not good news then. I did have the tax money aside, but
something came up in the family and I had to take a rash decision.
Spoke to my advisor today who said the IR will certainly not allow me
to pay over 16 months and would rather make me bankrupt, so that'll be
fun.
Jim
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368350 ] |
Do, 02 März 2006 23:48 |
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On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:32:22 -0000, "tim \(in sweden\)"
<tim_in_sweden2005 [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"SandalsMan" <jbenator [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1141325649.094214.34410 [at] v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>> You can ask but I suspect HMRC might have little sympathy
>
>I agree, the sum is too large, the period too long, and the
>tax has become due because of an acquisition of 'real'
>folding money so their view will be that the recipient should
>have held back the bit that didn't actually belong to them.
>
>> and they
>> certainly will want interest
>
>I presumed the OP is expecting this. It will probably be
>less that the cost of borrowing elsewhere (another reason
>why they won't advance it).
>
>> and a penalty for late payment.
>
>I am sure that there is no penalty for a pre-arranged late
>payment.
>
There is.
--
Peter Saxton from London
peter [at] petersaxton.co.uk
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368351 ] |
Fr, 03 März 2006 00:07 |
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Anyone know if it would make a difference if I provided evidence that I
would have the money after 16 months?
Indeed, has anybody ever negotiated payment terms for such a period?
That's my main question; and if you did - how did you go about it?
Jim
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368352 ] |
Fr, 03 März 2006 00:23 |
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"Simon James" <sicommando [at] googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1141340863.101017.195110 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Anyone know if it would make a difference if I provided evidence that I
> would have the money after 16 months?
>
Probably not. But in your OP you said a loan was out of the question
(though you then said a mortgage was an option...?)
If you can demonstrate that the money is coming in 16 months, that should
secure a loan at a reasonable rate - but HMRC are not bankers.
> Indeed, has anybody ever negotiated payment terms for such a period?
> That's my main question; and if you did - how did you go about it?
>
> Jim
>
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368377 ] |
Fr, 03 März 2006 22:42 |
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According to this, its possible to negotiate delayed payment of tax with the
Inland Revenue
http://www.taxaid.org.uk/tax_debt.cfm?secnav=1
"Simon James" <sicommando [at] googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1141340863.101017.195110 [at] j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Anyone know if it would make a difference if I provided evidence that I
> would have the money after 16 months?
>
> Indeed, has anybody ever negotiated payment terms for such a period?
> That's my main question; and if you did - how did you go about it?
>
> Jim
>
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368379 ] |
Fr, 03 März 2006 23:10 |
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>According to this, its possible to negotiate delayed payment of tax with the
>Inland Revenue
I am afraid that's more likely to apply where you owe fairly small
amounts of tax on earnings. I doubt HMRC would have much sympathy for
someone who realised a large amount of cash, and hence a capital gain,
by selling shares and then failed to retain enough money to pay his
tax. Just being realistic.
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368380 ] |
Fr, 03 März 2006 23:29 |
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"SandalsMan" <jbenator [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141423843.078118.132690 [at] i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >According to this, its possible to negotiate delayed payment of tax with
> >the
>>Inland Revenue
>
> I am afraid that's more likely to apply where you owe fairly small
> amounts of tax on earnings. I doubt HMRC would have much sympathy for
> someone who realised a large amount of cash, and hence a capital gain,
> by selling shares and then failed to retain enough money to pay his
> tax. Just being realistic.
>
I dont recall him asking for sympathy, rather he was seeking knowledge on
his best way forwards given his circumstances.
Adrian Smith
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368383 ] |
Sa, 04 März 2006 00:27 |
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I am not denying him my sympathy Adrian. I said that I doubt HMRC
would have much sympathy.... In other words I doubt HMRC would be
inclined to be lenient towards him, if you need to be precise about my
meaning. He has now received a fair amount of knowledge, including the
fact that HMRC will not have much sympathy!
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368393 ] |
Mo, 06 März 2006 17:39 |
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Went to see HMRC today to explain the situation, they were having none
of it.
Jim
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #368405 ] |
Mo, 06 März 2006 19:21 |
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No surprises there Simon, but thank you for letting us know.
Your best bet is to let your usual professional adviser handle HMRC but
don't bank on having any time to pay! Have the bank loan/mortgage
lined up because I think you will need it.
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #373472 ] |
Mo, 13 März 2006 10:27 |
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"SandalsMan" <jbenator [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141451414.868019.199990 [at] p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> >He does not need sympathy from HMRC or any one else. He simply has a
> >problem
>>and is looking for a sensible solution.
>
> I realise that he has a problem and I think both you and the OP know
> what I mean. He is looking for a sympathetic approach from HMRC.
> Myself and the other posters are trying to help him with establishing
> whether that is likely to happen.
>
>>In actual fact HMRC are pretty easy to deal with and relatively flexible
>>(within limits), even when large sums are involved.
>
>>On the flip side HMRC has a ferocious bite so best keep your head down, so
>>to speak.
>
> I think that you are giving mixed messages! HMRC are both easy to deal
> with and with a ferocious bite? What is the OP to make of that? I
> don't doubt that HMRC can be easy to deal with but they do have to
> comply with the law which says they will collect taxes due, and charge
> interest and penalty when taxpayers don't comply with the law. That's
> the main point I am trying to get across.
>
I did not give a mixed message.
In brief my point was that HMRC are usualy resonable to deal with but must
be respected as they have a lot of power.
I also advised that the OP seek the advice from a Financial Advisor.
--
Adrian Smith
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #373477 ] |
Mo, 13 März 2006 11:49 |
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I agree that they are usually easy to deal with. They only have the
power granted to them by law, which is to collect taxes due. They do
not have power to act as bankers or defer payment of tax, unless that
is their only way of getting the tax. In that case they have to charge
interest and a penalty. To do otherwise would be unfair on the rest of
us. I agree that the OP should seek advice from a tax specialist.
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #373487 ] |
Mo, 13 März 2006 13:49 |
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"SandalsMan" <jbenator [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142246992.226742.118660 [at] u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>I agree that they are usually easy to deal with. They only have the
> power granted to them by law, which is to collect taxes due. They do
> not have power to act as bankers or defer payment of tax, unless that
> is their only way of getting the tax. In that case they have to charge
> interest and a penalty. To do otherwise would be unfair on the rest of
> us. I agree that the OP should seek advice from a tax specialist.
>
I'm not trying to be picky.. honest....
But you seem to be unduly concerned with emotional words like 'not fair' and
'no sympathey'... In reality it's just a business transaction, certainly
HMRC aren't very concerned about 'fairness' when it comes to reimbursing tax
in a speedy manner.
--
Adrian Smith
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| Re: Very late payment of tax [message #373495 ] |
Mo, 13 März 2006 14:30 |
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Sorry Adrian, you seem to be misunderstanding me! I don't recall
saying "not fair" but I did say "no sympathy" but that was merely
illustrating what kind of reaction the OP should expect from HMRC. I
do understand its a business transaction and that was what I was trying
to get across to the OP. I was not implying that the situation was not
fair to the OP... it IS all about fairness between taxpayers though.
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