| flaws in the new Chip and PIN system [message #386803] |
Fr, 12 Mai 2006 09:02 |
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/lloyds_tsb_chip_and_ pin_fraud/
(more along the lines of the Shell fraud mechanism, eg using C&P as an aid
to magsttipe cloning)
Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that the "many measures to prevent
and detect fraud" implemented by banks consist of not authorising foreign
transactions unless you have told the card issuer in advance that you will
be in that country over those dates.
--
Tumbleweed
email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
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| Re: flaws in the new Chip and PIN system [message #386819 ] |
Fr, 12 Mai 2006 18:33 |
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Tumbleweed wrote:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/lloyds_tsb_chip_and_ pin_fraud/
>
> (more along the lines of the Shell fraud mechanism, eg using C&P as an aid
> to magsttipe cloning)
>
> Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that the "many measures to prevent
> and detect fraud" implemented by banks consist of not authorising foreign
> transactions unless you have told the card issuer in advance that you will
> be in that country over those dates.
>
Since when? I've used MasterCard, Visa credit & debit cards and Maestro
cards throughout France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany without informing
banks.
I can't see what relevance to C&P the ability to clone a mag strip card has.
A card with just a strip won't work as a debit card with a PIN.
--
Chris
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| Re: flaws in the new Chip and PIN system [message #386820 ] |
Fr, 12 Mai 2006 18:44 |
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Chris wrote:
> Tumbleweed wrote:
>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/lloyds_tsb_chip_and_ pin_fraud/
>>
>> (more along the lines of the Shell fraud mechanism, eg using C&P as an
>> aid to magsttipe cloning)
>>
>> Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that the "many measures to prevent
>> and detect fraud" implemented by banks consist of not authorising foreign
>> transactions unless you have told the card issuer in advance that you
>> will be in that country over those dates.
>>
> Since when? I've used MasterCard, Visa credit & debit cards and Maestro
> cards throughout France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany without
> informing banks.
>
> I can't see what relevance to C&P the ability to clone a mag strip card
> has. A card with just a strip won't work as a debit card with a PIN.
The relevance is that C&P cards also have mag strips, in order that they
may be used in cash machines when abroad. This strip can be cloned, and
if the PIN has been snaffled, the fake card can then be used to draw cash
at foreign machines.
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| Re: flaws in the new Chip and PIN system [message #386821 ] |
Fr, 12 Mai 2006 19:07 |
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"Chris" <discard.this [at] tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cjrm1F169dm2U1 [at] individual.net...
> Tumbleweed wrote:
>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/lloyds_tsb_chip_and_ pin_fraud/
>>
>> (more along the lines of the Shell fraud mechanism, eg using C&P as an
>> aid
>> to magsttipe cloning)
>>
>> Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that the "many measures to prevent
>> and detect fraud" implemented by banks consist of not authorising foreign
>> transactions unless you have told the card issuer in advance that you
>> will
>> be in that country over those dates.
>>
> Since when? I've used MasterCard, Visa credit & debit cards and Maestro
> cards throughout France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany without
> informing
> banks.
>
SInce very recently. they will have to do this or the amount of fraud will
quickly climb way above the pre C&P levels as this is such an obvious
loophole.
--
Tumbleweed
email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
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| Re: flaws in the new Chip and PIN system [message #386824 ] |
Fr, 12 Mai 2006 19:47 |
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Ronald Raygun wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>
>> Tumbleweed wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/lloyds_tsb_chip_and_ pin_fraud/
>>>
>>> (more along the lines of the Shell fraud mechanism, eg using C&P as an
>>> aid to magsttipe cloning)
>>>
>>> Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that the "many measures to
>>> prevent and detect fraud" implemented by banks consist of not
>>> authorising foreign transactions unless you have told the card issuer in
>>> advance that you will be in that country over those dates.
>>>
>> Since when? I've used MasterCard, Visa credit & debit cards and Maestro
>> cards throughout France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany without
>> informing banks.
>>
>> I can't see what relevance to C&P the ability to clone a mag strip card
>> has. A card with just a strip won't work as a debit card with a PIN.
>
> The relevance is that C&P cards also have mag strips, in order that they
> may be used in cash machines when abroad. This strip can be cloned, and
> if the PIN has been snaffled, the fake card can then be used to draw cash
> at foreign machines.
Much like cash withdrawal cards have always worked?
--
Chris
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| Re: flaws in the new Chip and PIN system [message #386825 ] |
Fr, 12 Mai 2006 20:00 |
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On Fri, 12 May 2006 18:47:26 +0100, Chris wrote:
> Ronald Raygun wrote:
>
>> Chris wrote:
[snip]
>>> I can't see what relevance to C&P the ability to clone a mag strip card
>>> has. A card with just a strip won't work as a debit card with a PIN.
>>
>> The relevance is that C&P cards also have mag strips, in order that they
>> may be used in cash machines when abroad. This strip can be cloned, and
>> if the PIN has been snaffled, the fake card can then be used to draw
>> cash at foreign machines.
>
> Much like cash withdrawal cards have always worked?
Exactly, but C&P means that PINs are exposed in far more places than just
at ATMs as they used to be. More exposure offers more opportunity for
capture (or "snaffled", as Mr Raygun labelled it).
Best Regards,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher Renew for Freedom! Renew your passport in May 2006 and
Bristol, UK resist compulsory UK ID Cards and National ID Database
PGP/GnuPG ID:0x5010dbff <http://www.renewforfreedom.org>
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| Re: flaws in the new Chip and PIN system [message #386826 ] |
Fr, 12 Mai 2006 19:34 |
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cloned
"Tumbleweed" <thisaccountneverread [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4ciq7tF161ea8U1 [at] individual.net...
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/lloyds_tsb_chip_and_ pin_fraud/
>
> (more along the lines of the Shell fraud mechanism, eg using C&P as an aid
> to magsttipe cloning)
>
> Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that the "many measures to prevent
> and detect fraud" implemented by banks consist of not authorising foreign
> transactions unless you have told the card issuer in advance that you will
> be in that country over those dates.
I have just rang my issuer to tell them about an extended
trip that I would be making to what I thought was a region
prone to the use of cloned cards.
She added the info to my account but indicated that the
'system' would be disinterested in such usage.
Can't say that I was impressed.
tim
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| Re: flaws in the new Chip and PIN system [message #386966 ] |
Mo, 15 Mai 2006 12:07 |
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At 18:34:17 on 12/05/2006, tim (back at home) delighted uk.finance by
announcing:
> cloned
> "Tumbleweed" <thisaccountneverread [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4ciq7tF161ea8U1 [at] individual.net...
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/lloyds_tsb_chip_and_ pin_fraud/
> >
> > (more along the lines of the Shell fraud mechanism, eg using C&P as an aid
> > to magsttipe cloning)
> >
> > Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that the "many measures to prevent
> > and detect fraud" implemented by banks consist of not authorising foreign
> > transactions unless you have told the card issuer in advance that you will
> > be in that country over those dates.
>
> I have just rang my issuer to tell them about an extended
> trip that I would be making to what I thought was a region
> prone to the use of cloned cards.
>
> She added the info to my account but indicated that the
> 'system' would be disinterested in such usage.
It would hopefully be interested if you were using the card in the UK at the
same time...
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| Re: flaws in the new Chip and PIN system [message #386976 ] |
Mo, 15 Mai 2006 14:09 |
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Alex wrote:
> It would hopefully be interested if you were using the card in the UK at the
> same time...
Of course this has been a problem with certain cards on the past. My
Barclaycard now has a different number from my better half - this means
the system can be told when we are each in different Countries. Co-op
Visa still operate the same number on both cards and often block
transactions when I am having lunch in London and my wife is lunching in
Madrid. Amex have issued different numbers for each card on the same
account for over 25 years so that has been the most reliable payment
method overseas.
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