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#1: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-02-21 00:47:48 by pixel_a_ted

I periodically look into this for purposes of asset protection but have
not yet been able to bite the bullet. My main concerns, beside the cost
of the policy, are outlined below. I would appreciate any discussion on
these specific points. Thanks.

o Someone, say, in their mid-fifties would be contributing to a policy
that might not be used for 30 years. Given that most/all companies
eventually go out of business (just compare the Dow Jones component
companies from several decades ago with the current list), there is a
risk that the company that you buy the policy from won't be around when
you need it.

o All the policies contain a clause allowing the company to raise rates
in the future. They say that this is not done on an individual basis
but would apply to all people in a certain class. I have heard that
some companies have already applied to the states to raise their rates
and may have already raised them. Also, some companies have never tried
to raise rates. So there is a risk of unknown future expense - this is
unlike, say, flat-rate term life insurance.

o I guess there are other issues related to the fact that the policy
might not be used until the distant future. With all the baby boomers,
maybe there will be some kind of Medicare or Social Security benefit. I
know this is not likely, but my point is that we don't know what the
world will be like in, say, 30 years.

Report this message

#2: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-02-21 03:01:17 by Cal Lester

&quot;pixel_a_ted&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pixel_a_ted&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">pixel_a_ted&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1140474605.977269.215240&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1140474605.977269.215240&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; I periodically look into this for purposes of asset protection but have
&gt; not yet been able to bite the bullet. My main concerns, beside the cost
&gt; of the policy, are outlined below. I would appreciate any discussion on
&gt; these specific points. Thanks.
&gt;
&gt; o Someone, say, in their mid-fifties would be contributing to a policy
&gt; that might not be used for 30 years. Given that most/all companies
&gt; eventually go out of business (just compare the Dow Jones component
&gt; companies from several decades ago with the current list), there is a
&gt; risk that the company that you buy the policy from won't be around when
&gt; you need it.

This has never been a problem in the Insurance Industry. If and when
a company can no longer make a profit, or whishes to divest itself of
a &quot;book of business&quot; because they are regulated by the Commisioner
of Insurance of thier Home State, arrangements have ALWAYS been
made for a larger company to take over.

&gt;
&gt; o All the policies contain a clause allowing the company to raise rates
&gt; in the future. They say that this is not done on an individual basis
&gt; but would apply to all people in a certain class. I have heard that
&gt; some companies have already applied to the states to raise their rates
&gt; and may have already raised them. Also, some companies have never tried
&gt; to raise rates. So there is a risk of unknown future expense - this is
&gt; unlike, say, flat-rate term life insurance.
&gt;

ALL policies do NOT contain the same clause or clauses. SOME policies,
and it is ALWAYS spelled out on the face of the contract, do reserve that
particular right. If the contracts were sold at a level that makes it
impossible
to maintain, AND they have that provison, YES they do.
The primary difference between LTC &amp; &quot;flat rate term insurance&quot;, is that
in MOST cases, the LTC policy (assuming that premiums are paid) WILL
be in force when needed. Whereas a term life policy is only &quot;in-force&quot;
during
that particluar term. IF you live beyond that specific period of time, in
most
cases, there is NO COVERAGE.


&gt; o I guess there are other issues related to the fact that the policy
&gt; might not be used until the distant future. With all the baby boomers,
&gt; maybe there will be some kind of Medicare or Social Security benefit. I
&gt; know this is not likely, but my point is that we don't know what the
&gt; world will be like in, say, 30 years.


What we do know, is that health care, in EVERY form, will be more
expensive in 30 years. HOWEVER there are a number of companies
that offer a Guaranteed Contract, payable over a 10 year period,
(which would be relatively inexpensive for someone in YOUR age
category,) that would be ENTIRELY PAID UP. Premiums could NEVER
be raised (since there are none), and if pre- selected, would include an
INCREASING BENEFIT (which would almost triple over that same
30 years)
We currently have BOTH Medicare &amp; Medicaid LTC benefits available,
but I do NOT suggest that you rely upon them.

Cal Lester CLU

Report this message

#3: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-02-21 05:37:57 by Elizabeth Richardson

&gt;
&gt; o I guess there are other issues related to the fact that the policy
&gt; might not be used until the distant future. With all the baby boomers,
&gt; maybe there will be some kind of Medicare or Social Security benefit. I
&gt; know this is not likely, but my point is that we don't know what the
&gt; world will be like in, say, 30 years.
&gt;

You are correct that seeing into the future is next to impossible. My
husband and I purchased a policy a couple of years. People in my family tend
to live to be very old, so I feel pretty confident that I will need this
policy. It has a survivorship clause so that either one or both of us are
covered up to a maximum monthly amount, and has an inflation clause so that
this maximum amount will increase at 5% per year, compounded. I could have
included my adult children if I had wanted to do so. You may be interested
in this type of policy. It is offered by John Hancock.

Elizabeth Richardson

Report this message

#4: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-02-21 06:46:24 by Ron Peterson

Cal wrote:

&gt; What we do know, is that health care, in EVERY form, will be more
&gt; expensive in 30 years.

All currently available drugs will be out of patent by then.

--
Ron

Report this message

#5: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-02-21 11:07:21 by Mechanics of Money Financial BBS

The general rule for LTC insurance (recognizing that general rules can
be really dangerous) is that if you can afford LTC insurance then you
don't need it and vice versa. I have been looking at this issue for my
wife's parents (nothing like the pressure of being the only financial
advisor in the family). My ultimate recommendation was for them to
contribute their funds to a tax-favored retirement account instead of
LTC (if you are young enough and you think you are healty then you
might consider this option as well). Honestly, based on their savings
and earnings, it was a close call.

Considering everything else, these were the decisive factors that I
considered: The reason why most LTC policies have a 5 year (or less)
payout period is that most people do not survive long after these types
of policies kick in (yes, this point is less now that LTC policies
cover in-home care coverage as well). I think that the statistics show
that many people purchase these types of polices, pay for them for
years, and then die without having used up their full benefit. Thus,
even with the Boomer situation pending, it appears that LTC policies
will continue to be profitable for insurance companies. Insurance
coverage -- no matter what flavor -- is expensive. Taxes are at
historic low levels, which favors putting post-tax contributions into
retirement accounts. If something catastrophic happens, LTC patients
are treated the same as private pay patients (despite the common belief
that they are not).

This is a tough decision so I hope that helps.



Gary Brolis
<a href="http://www.MechanicsofMoney.com" target="_blank">http://www.MechanicsofMoney.com</a>
<a href="http://www.MechanicsofMoney.com/blog.php" target="_blank">http://www.MechanicsofMoney.com/blog.php</a>

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#6: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-02-21 23:14:51 by skip5700removethis

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:41:46 -0600, &quot;Cal&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cal-lester&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">cal-lester&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Elizabeth, I hope that your contract is what we refer to as &quot;a pot of
&gt;money&quot;, &gt;rather than specific Home Care and/or Nursing home care.
&gt;Cal Lester CLU

Cal I don't pretend to be an expert on LTC policies. By &quot;a pot of
money&quot; do you mean literally 100% reimbursement without regard to any
limitations?

If yes, I assume that a &quot;specific&quot; policy would be a typical insurance
contract spelling out conditions, limitations, covered charge
definitions, etc.?

If so, are there any of the former?


-HW &quot;Skip&quot; Weldon
Columbia, SC

Report this message

#7: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-02-22 00:49:29 by Elizabeth Richardson

&quot;Cal&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cal-lester&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">cal-lester&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:EfidnU0hAeRy52beRVn-iA&#64;comcast.com..." target="_blank">EfidnU0hAeRy52beRVn-iA&#64;comcast.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; Elizabeth, I hope that your contract is what we refer to as &quot;a pot of
&gt; money&quot;,
&gt; rather than specific Home Care and/or Nursing home care.

Cal, I don't know that I've ever heard the term &quot;pot of money&quot;. But yes, it
covers either or both Home Care or Nursing Home Care. The home care has no
waiting period, the nursing home has a 90 day waiting period. The home care
can be as little or as much as we might need, given the total monthly payout
limitations. The home care days count toward the 90 day waiting period. And
to Skip, yes there are limitations. A doctor must say we have lost 2 or more
daily living skills (like the ability to dress oneself) out of I think there
are 6, OR have cognitive impairment. As I said, my family is very
long-lived, and I expect to live to 90+. I don't think qualifying for
benefits under this policy will be a problem by the time I reach that very
ripe age.

Elizabeth Richardson

Report this message

#8: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-02-28 12:42:05 by John Radgosky

&gt;&gt; it appears that LTC policies will continue to be profitable for insurance companies.

Hi Gary,

The LTC market place has been rife with insurance companies exiting
and/or merging, being bought out and so on. That suggests a somewhat
different picture to the one you paint.

Too many carriers have priced to the market rather than to the risk.
And many of them have suffered because of that which means it is the
policy owner who is left with insecurity from such companies who are
supposed to be in the business of providing financial security. Go
figure.

It is highly likely there will be more casualties as a consequence of
inadequate pricing or underwriting. And that means potentially more
future policy owners handed an unwelcome dose of insecurity to help
them sleep less at night.

I'm and agent with Northwestern Mutual who has a reputation for a
conservative approach to policy pricing, a triple A rating from the 4
major rating agencies, and tops the list yet again as the most admired
in the Fortune list which hit newstands today. I recommend clients to
assess the need, project for inflation, and buy as soon as possible to
commit the lowest possible premium to the plan. In other words, buy
benefit, not premium. And for some people a policy is not their best
option, each case needs to be looked at for it's own merits and the
wishes of the individuals or families.

Also, when younger it is appropriate to consider a lifetime benefit.
As the policyowner ages it could be wise to reduce the benefit period
to a more realistic time table. This avoids the scenario you describe
which is only part of the story. For example, most people do not know
there are long term care home health agencies that specialize in
pediatric care. So we have children, in large numbers, receiving long
term care. Long Term Care is not just an issue for the aged. We're
all familiar with the story of Christopher Reeve for example. So
owning a policy with a short pay out period doesn't help the younger
owner too much if they get hit with a care need, does it?

As for premiums being expensive, if you ever had a long term care
situation in your own family, as I have, you might not hold an opinion
that the insurance is expensive and instead, like me, be relieved there
was such a policy available to provide to the standard desired by the
insured. When the nurse is arriving at the home, or staying overnight,
or when you're being ushered into the nursing home knowing it's
probably going to be a long stay, suddenly the premiums paid seem a
bargain.

John Radgosky
Fort Lauderdale, Florida

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#9: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-02-28 18:00:19 by Cal Lester

very well put.

Cal Lester CLU


&quot;John Radgosky&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jradgosky&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">jradgosky&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1141099258.443297.79270&#64;t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141099258.443297.79270&#64;t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;&gt; it appears that LTC policies will continue to be profitable for
insurance companies.
&gt;
&gt; Hi Gary,
&gt;
&gt; The LTC market place has been rife with insurance companies exiting
&gt; and/or merging, being bought out and so on. That suggests a somewhat
&gt; different picture to the one you paint.
&gt;
&gt; Too many carriers have priced to the market rather than to the risk.
&gt; And many of them have suffered because of that which means it is the
&gt; policy owner who is left with insecurity from such companies who are
&gt; supposed to be in the business of providing financial security. Go
&gt; figure.
&gt;
&gt; It is highly likely there will be more casualties as a consequence of
&gt; inadequate pricing or underwriting. And that means potentially more
&gt; future policy owners handed an unwelcome dose of insecurity to help
&gt; them sleep less at night.
&gt;
&gt; I'm and agent with Northwestern Mutual who has a reputation for a
&gt; conservative approach to policy pricing, a triple A rating from the 4
&gt; major rating agencies, and tops the list yet again as the most admired
&gt; in the Fortune list which hit newstands today. I recommend clients to
&gt; assess the need, project for inflation, and buy as soon as possible to
&gt; commit the lowest possible premium to the plan. In other words, buy
&gt; benefit, not premium. And for some people a policy is not their best
&gt; option, each case needs to be looked at for it's own merits and the
&gt; wishes of the individuals or families.
&gt;
&gt; Also, when younger it is appropriate to consider a lifetime benefit.
&gt; As the policyowner ages it could be wise to reduce the benefit period
&gt; to a more realistic time table. This avoids the scenario you describe
&gt; which is only part of the story. For example, most people do not know
&gt; there are long term care home health agencies that specialize in
&gt; pediatric care. So we have children, in large numbers, receiving long
&gt; term care. Long Term Care is not just an issue for the aged. We're
&gt; all familiar with the story of Christopher Reeve for example. So
&gt; owning a policy with a short pay out period doesn't help the younger
&gt; owner too much if they get hit with a care need, does it?
&gt;
&gt; As for premiums being expensive, if you ever had a long term care
&gt; situation in your own family, as I have, you might not hold an opinion
&gt; that the insurance is expensive and instead, like me, be relieved there
&gt; was such a policy available to provide to the standard desired by the
&gt; insured. When the nurse is arriving at the home, or staying overnight,
&gt; or when you're being ushered into the nursing home knowing it's
&gt; probably going to be a long stay, suddenly the premiums paid seem a
&gt; bargain.
&gt;
&gt; John Radgosky
&gt; Fort Lauderdale, Florida
&gt;

Report this message

#10: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-01 23:27:07 by Cal Lester

&quot;Ron Peterson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ron&#64;shell.core.com" target="_blank">ron&#64;shell.core.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1141247865.925213.137750&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141247865.925213.137750&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; One alternative is to buy into a continuing care retirement community
&gt; which allows you to move from independent living to assisted living to
&gt; nursing home care. I am not sure of the costs, but I have an aunt in
&gt; one in a rural community with costs of about $1300/month with a small
&gt; apartment and lunches (she is on her own for breakfast and dinner). A
&gt; friend mentioned that his parents and in-laws have done the same thing
&gt; (with cash buy in) with good results.
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Ron
&gt;

The catch here, at least here in Florida, is that there is normally a very
LARGE buy in. The only ones that I am cognizant of involve well over 100K
buy in, THEN between $1500 &amp; $2000 a month.

If there is any concern (and there should be for most), then a GOOD
LTC contract, (purchased early in life) would probably be best.

Look into that &quot;Ten Pay Contract&quot; that I mentioned earlier.

Cal Lester CLU

Report this message

#11: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-02 18:26:31 by Ron Peterson

Cal wrote:
&gt; &quot;Ron Peterson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ron&#64;shell.core.com" target="_blank">ron&#64;shell.core.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1141247865.925213.137750&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141247865.925213.137750&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>

&gt; &gt; One alternative is to buy into a continuing care retirement community
&gt; &gt; which allows you to move from independent living to assisted living to
&gt; &gt; nursing home care. I am not sure of the costs, but I have an aunt in
&gt; &gt; one in a rural community with costs of about $1300/month with a small
&gt; &gt; apartment and lunches (she is on her own for breakfast and dinner). A
&gt; &gt; friend mentioned that his parents and in-laws have done the same thing
&gt; &gt; (with cash buy in) with good results.

&gt; The catch here, at least here in Florida, is that there is normally a very
&gt; LARGE buy in. The only ones that I am cognizant of involve well over 100K
&gt; buy in, THEN between $1500 &amp; $2000 a month.

I was considering moving to Florida, but my nephew that was living
there decided that he wasn't going to be able to afford a home there
(Sarasota) and moved back here (to the upper midwest).

That sounds economical, but it depends on the details.

After a brief web search, I see those facilities are scarce, but I
thought that the buy in was of the order of $300,000 for a two bedroom
unit which probably depends on the age and health of the new residents.

I look at the financial statement of one of the better facilities in my
community and found that they have $40 million in assets and $45
million in liabilities, which may not be too bad, but I see some risk
in going in one of those facilities.

&gt; If there is any concern (and there should be for most), then a GOOD
&gt; LTC contract, (purchased early in life) would probably be best.

How early in life does the LTC contract need to be to get good rates?

&gt; Look into that &quot;Ten Pay Contract&quot; that I mentioned earlier.

I would prefer 10 year coverage over 3 or 5.

--
Ron

Report this message

#12: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-02 22:28:53 by Cal Lester

(snipped)


&gt;
&gt; &gt; If there is any concern (and there should be for most), then a GOOD
&gt; &gt; LTC contract, (purchased early in life) would probably be best.
&gt;
&gt; How early in life does the LTC contract need to be to get good rates?

The best time in most case's seesm to be arounf the age of 55.
This is most effective if one decides to take advantage of one
of the 10 pay contracts...........

&gt; &gt; Look into that &quot;Ten Pay Contract&quot; that I mentioned earlier.
&gt;
&gt; I would prefer 10 year coverage over 3 or 5.
&gt;


I was refering to the number of years that one would be
required to pay premiums. In the 10 pay contract, IF ALL
premiums are paid on time (or in advance), then after the
tenth year NO FURTHER PREMIUMS ARE REQUIRED.
Therefore, the company can NOT increase any future premium.


As to the legnth of coverage, the safest obviously ia a
LIFETIME benefit contract. Most contracts offer a number
of options, 2yr., 3yr., 5yr. &amp; lifetime.
Cal Lester CLU


&gt; --
&gt; Ron
&gt;

Report this message

#13: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-07 01:12:39 by nellplotts

Cal wrote:
&gt; &quot;Ron Peterson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ron&#64;shell.core.com" target="_blank">ron&#64;shell.core.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1141247865.925213.137750&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141247865.925213.137750&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; One alternative is to buy into a continuing care retirement community
&gt; &gt; which allows you to move from independent living to assisted living to
&gt; &gt; nursing home care. I am not sure of the costs, but I have an aunt in
&gt; &gt; one in a rural community with costs of about $1300/month with a small
&gt; &gt; apartment and lunches (she is on her own for breakfast and dinner). A
&gt; &gt; friend mentioned that his parents and in-laws have done the same thing
&gt; &gt; (with cash buy in) with good results.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; --
&gt; &gt; Ron
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; The catch here, at least here in Florida, is that there is normally a very
&gt; LARGE buy in. The only ones that I am cognizant of involve well over 100K
&gt; buy in, THEN between $1500 &amp; $2000 a month.
&gt;
&gt; If there is any concern (and there should be for most), then a GOOD
&gt; LTC contract, (purchased early in life) would probably be best.
&gt;
&gt; Look into that &quot;Ten Pay Contract&quot; that I mentioned earlier.
&gt;
&gt; Cal Lester CLU

Husband and I are looking at CCRCs with a target move ~ 5 years hence.
The only community in our state that offers a time-unlimited assisted
living and/or skilled nursing care where the state inspections are very
good (see Medicare's Nursing Home Compare site) charges $2,412/mo with
an ~$230,000 buy-in for a 904 sq ft residence for ONE person ($841/mo
+$35,000 for the second person). Comprable communities that charge
based on services needed are about $1,000/mo less.

Report this message

#14: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-07 16:44:28 by Elizabeth Richardson

&quot;MATTY&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mathjak107&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">mathjak107&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1141722469.550823.24970&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141722469.550823.24970&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;i figured all you
&gt; need to do is cover your-self for 3-4 years to shift assets ..the
&gt; planners felt it was a bad idea..they felt the states were trying to
&gt; push the time frame farther and farther out and if they do you may not
&gt; qualify later on for insurance because of health issues that may crop
&gt; up...

The planners are right, in that you may not qualify for insurance later on.
But, as you are just wanting to shift assets, I guess it doesn't matter. For
what it's worth, in my state, current care in a nursing home costs about
$4000/month, more if Alzheimer's care is needed. The cost goes up nearly
every year. If both of you will need care, will you have the $300,000 plus
its likely to cost? For us, we decided insurance is cheaper.

Elizabeth Richardson

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#15: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-07 16:51:51 by Ron Peterson

Cal wrote:
&gt; &lt; snipped&gt;
&gt; &gt; Husband and I are looking at CCRCs with a target move ~ 5 years hence.
&gt; &gt; The only community in our state that offers a time-unlimited assisted
&gt; &gt; living and/or skilled nursing care where the state inspections are very
&gt; &gt; good (see Medicare's Nursing Home Compare site) charges $2,412/mo with
&gt; &gt; an ~$230,000 buy-in for a 904 sq ft residence for ONE person ($841/mo
&gt; &gt; +$35,000 for the second person). Comprable communities that charge
&gt; &gt; based on services needed are about $1,000/mo less.

&gt; You do not say how old each of you are, nor your general medical condition.
&gt; If you are 70 or under, and in relatively decent health, why pray tell would
&gt; you &quot;give away $230,000 to #265,000??????????????????

The buy-in is like buying a condo and you will no longer need your
present house which may fund that buy-in.

That situation allows you to make friends and have social support even
if you get moved into nursing care.

&gt; Even if you are in poor health, I would assume that you could still buy
&gt; some form of LTC, for a great deal less....

If you have LTC insurance, you will still need to find a nursing home
or assisted living arrangements depending on your health.

--
Ron

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#16: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-07 16:57:34 by Cal Lester

&quot;MATTY&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mathjak107&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">mathjak107&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1141722469.550823.24970&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141722469.550823.24970&#64;u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; my wife and i are featured in money magazine this month (march) in the
&gt; portfolio makeover article,,the article is also up on cnn money
&gt; website..anyway one of the issues the planners and i were at odds with
&gt; was ltc..i felt i may want to self-insure instead of paying into a plan
&gt; that may raise us an endless amount over the years...


It is NOT neccessary to do as you have described. I have written
a number of times about the fact that there are companies out there
that offer a &quot;TEN PAY PLAN&quot;.
That is a contract upon which you make a single payment or
pay for either ten years. At that time, the contract is PAID-UP
IN FULL, benefits will remain IN-FORCE, and the premiums
can never be increased, because there are NO FURTHER PREMIUMS
to be paid.



i figured all you
&gt; need to do is cover your-self for 3-4 years to shift assets .

It is entirely possible that one of you might need coverage for
a longer period of time. Also you just might NOT want to shift
those assets (because it is the wrong time).


..the
&gt; planners felt it was a bad idea..they felt the states were trying to
&gt; push the time frame farther and farther out and if they do you may not
&gt; qualify later on for insurance because of health issues that may crop
&gt; up...im still undecided about this issue..for now ill review it again
&gt; in say 5 years as im only 53
&gt;

Obviously you are in fairly good heath at this time (otherwise the
subject is mute), and should be able to qualify at an INEXPENSIVE
rate. They are correct in that the older you get the less insurable
you become. The optimum time to buy is age 55.

Cal Lester CLU

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#17: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-07 19:06:16 by Elizabeth Richardson

&quot;Ron Peterson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ron&#64;shell.core.com" target="_blank">ron&#64;shell.core.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1141746687.598548.6200&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141746687.598548.6200&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; The buy-in is like buying a condo and you will no longer need your
&gt; present house which may fund that buy-in.
&gt;

If it is like buying a condo, when you die will your heirs be able to sell
it and get your money back? Or is it more like dropping money down a hole?

Elizabeth Richardson

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#18: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-07 21:17:01 by Ron Peterson

Elizabeth Richardson wrote:
&gt; &quot;Ron Peterson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ron&#64;shell.core.com" target="_blank">ron&#64;shell.core.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1141746687.598548.6200&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141746687.598548.6200&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>

&gt; &gt; The buy-in is like buying a condo and you will no longer need your
&gt; &gt; present house which may fund that buy-in.

&gt; If it is like buying a condo, when you die will your heirs be able to sell
&gt; it and get your money back? Or is it more like dropping money down a hole?

Your heirs won't get anything, but they won't have to support your stay
in a nursing home. If a continuing care retirement home isn't
affordable to you and still leave something to your heirs, then you
will have to look at other options.

I was just mentioning one alternative to LTC insurance. Getting into a
CCRH may require that you be at least 62 years of age, so it's an
option that may not be open to everyone.

--
Ron

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#19: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-08 00:00:56 by Cal Lester

&gt;
&gt; The buy-in is like buying a condo and you will no longer need your
&gt; present house which may fund that buy-in.
&gt;
&gt; That situation allows you to make friends and have social support even
&gt; if you get moved into nursing care.
&gt;

I still find it extremely difficult to understand why someone would
wish to &quot;give away over 200 grand&quot; and S T I L L have to pay
a monthly fee.
Purchasing a &quot;GOOD&quot; LTC contract, one that utilizes the
&quot;bucket of funds&quot; approach, so that you can use any or all
of it for Home Care, Assisted Living &amp;/or Nursing home care.
It should also contain an adequate &quot;cost of living increase&quot; benefit.


&gt; &gt; Even if you are in poor health, I would assume that you could still buy
&gt; &gt; some form of LTC, for a great deal less....
&gt;
&gt; If you have LTC insurance, you will still need to find a nursing home
&gt; or assisted living arrangements depending on your health.
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Ron


In either case, there is still a need to &quot;shop around&quot; for a facility
where you would feel comfortable. HOWEVER, if you have
purchased a good LTC contract, you do it IF &amp; When you need it.

Cal Lester CLU

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#20: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-08 00:03:08 by Cal Lester

&quot;Elizabeth Richardson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:erichktn&#64;worldnet.att.net" target="_blank">erichktn&#64;worldnet.att.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:4YjPf.23832$<a href="mailto:J02.7871&#64;bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net..." target="_blank">J02.7871&#64;bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...</a>
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Ron Peterson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ron&#64;shell.core.com" target="_blank">ron&#64;shell.core.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1141746687.598548.6200&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141746687.598548.6200&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; The buy-in is like buying a condo and you will no longer need your
&gt; &gt; present house which may fund that buy-in.
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; If it is like buying a condo, when you die will your heirs be able to sell
&gt; it and get your money back? Or is it more like dropping money down a hole?
&gt;
&gt; Elizabeth Richardson
&gt;

Actually as I understand it here in Florida, it is BOTH. If you live there
for a short period of time (and I have no idea what that might be), then
S O M E , not all of the money is returned. The balance sinks into the
hole.

Cal Lester CLU

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#21: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-08 16:44:52 by Douglas Johnson

&quot;Ron Peterson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ron&#64;shell.core.com" target="_blank">ron&#64;shell.core.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;Elizabeth Richardson wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;Ron Peterson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ron&#64;shell.core.com" target="_blank">ron&#64;shell.core.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1141746687.598548.6200&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1141746687.598548.6200&#64;i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; The buy-in is like buying a condo and you will no longer need your
&gt;&gt; &gt; present house which may fund that buy-in.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; If it is like buying a condo, when you die will your heirs be able to sell
&gt;&gt; it and get your money back? Or is it more like dropping money down a hole?
&gt;
&gt;Your heirs won't get anything, but they won't have to support your stay
&gt;in a nursing home. If a continuing care retirement home isn't
&gt;affordable to you and still leave something to your heirs, then you
&gt;will have to look at other options.

I worry about the care company going bankrupt and the resident losing the buy in
AND their residence. Is the buy in escrowed or is it a general obligation of
the care company?

-- Doug

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#22: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-08 17:53:04 by Cal Lester

&gt; I worry about the care company going bankrupt and the resident losing the
buy in
&gt; AND their residence. Is the buy in escrowed or is it a general obligation
of
&gt; the care company?
&gt;
&gt; -- Doug
&gt;

A very good point. Since you are NOT dealing with an insurance company,
there is no help available from the Insurance Commissioner. I will be
looking
to see what additional answers you get....................
Cal Lester CLU

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#23: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-08 19:07:09 by Ron Peterson

Douglas Johnson wrote:
&gt; &quot;Ron Peterson&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ron&#64;shell.core.com" target="_blank">ron&#64;shell.core.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; &gt;Your heirs won't get anything, but they won't have to support your stay
&gt; &gt;in a nursing home. If a continuing care retirement home isn't
&gt; &gt;affordable to you and still leave something to your heirs, then you
&gt; &gt;will have to look at other options.

&gt; I worry about the care company going bankrupt and the resident losing the buy in
&gt; AND their residence. Is the buy in escrowed or is it a general obligation of
&gt; the care company?

I haven't researched the continuing care retirement homes to be able to
give you a precise answer. The local home I checked is underwater by
10% so there is some danger. (It's a nice place and I know of at least
one multi-millionaire living there). I think there is also a danger in
some insurance policies whose companies may go under or who are
unwilling to pay benefits. Some retirement homes may be exempt from
real estate taxes making the homes more attractive than living in
conventional house.

--
Ron

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#24: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-08 22:41:55 by Cal Lester

&gt;
&gt; I haven't researched the continuing care retirement homes to be able to
&gt; give you a precise answer. The local home I checked is underwater by
&gt; 10% so there is some danger. (It's a nice place and I know of at least
&gt; one multi-millionaire living there). I think there is also a danger in
&gt; some insurance policies whose companies may go under or who are
&gt; unwilling to pay benefits. Some retirement homes may be exempt from
&gt; real estate taxes making the homes more attractive than living in
&gt; conventional house.
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Ron

As I stated earlier, I can NOT vouch for the stability of ANY nursing
facility, I can assure you that if there is an LTC policy in-force, meaning
that premiums are paid to date, that the benefit WILL be payable. As far
as &quot;unwilling to pay&quot;, I can also assure you that &quot;IF&quot; the claim is legit,
and &quot;IF&quot; the terms of the CONTRACT have been met, that they will pay.
If they did not (and you are talking a paltry few hundreds of thousands),
that
the penalty from the Insurance Commissioners office would be much more.

They do NOT want any grief with the Insurance Dept.

Cal Lester CLU

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#25: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-10 20:16:22 by Will Trice

MATTY wrote:
&gt; my wife and i are featured in money magazine this month (march) in the
&gt; portfolio makeover article,,the article is also up on cnn money
&gt; website..anyway one of the issues the planners and i were at odds with
&gt; was ltc..

I thought the advice to buy into commodities was a little strange, too...

-Will

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#26: Re: Long-Term Care Insurance

Posted on 2006-03-11 01:16:53 by MATTY

Will Trice wrote:
&gt; MATTY wrote:
&gt; &gt; my wife and i are featured in money magazine this month (march) in the
&gt; &gt; portfolio makeover article,,the article is also up on cnn money
&gt; &gt; website..anyway one of the issues the planners and i were at odds with
&gt; &gt; was ltc..
&gt;
&gt; I thought the advice to buy into commodities was a little strange, too...
&gt;
&gt; -Will

actually i thought about it,looked at the corrolation between my stocks
and the commodities and precious metals funds and agreed with the
idea..im glad we did it,the last few weeks have been wild in both
directions and the commodities funds actually cut the wild swings and
volitility of my mix down..now it pulls and pushes more ofton than not
and the drops arent as bad..

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