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#1: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-09 21:21:59 by the_sarp

1) If a stock goes up but you don't sell, your income has increased.
Even if the increase has been plowed back into buying additional
shares, do you owe income tax on this for that year?

2) Is their a way to time this by the tax laws so that the tax burden
can be shifted into a year in which you lost money, thus being covered
by a deduction?

3) If a stock goes up and you do sell some shares, do you owe INCOME
TAX AND CAPITAL GAINS TAX on the increase?

I am given to understand, that If you wait one year and a day before
selling shares, certain taxes like capital gains go down?

4) If your stocks have risen and your sell shares then use the profits
to pay down a mortgage, which is tax deductible, does that mean the
sale of your shares is exempt form capital gains and income tax?

Are there other ways to time the sale or other disposition of shares to
reduce tax burdern?

comments welcome

the sarp

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#2: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-09 21:50:58 by Ephraim

On 9 Mar 2006 12:21:59 -0800, &quot;sarp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;1) If a stock goes up but you don't sell, your income has increased.

Wrong.

&gt;Even if the increase has been plowed back into buying additional
&gt;shares, do you owe income tax on this for that year?

If you didn't sell, where did you get the funds to &quot;plow
back?&quot;

If you sold at a profit, you have some tax liability attached
to that transaction in the year in which you sold. There may
be other considerations, however. Consult either a CPA or a tax
attorney.


&gt;2) Is their a way to time this by the tax laws so that the tax burden
&gt;can be shifted into a year in which you lost money, thus being covered
&gt;by a deduction?

You have, perhaps, a tax-loss carry-forward?
Consult either a CPA or a tax attorney.

&gt;
&gt;3) If a stock goes up and you do sell some shares, do you owe INCOME
&gt;TAX AND CAPITAL GAINS TAX on the increase?

Maybe. See &quot;alternative minimum tax.&quot;
Consult either a CPA or a tax attorney.

&gt;I am given to understand, that If you wait one year and a day before
&gt;selling shares, certain taxes like capital gains go down?

The last I knew - but this may not be up-to-date - that is
correct. I have a CPA do my taxes.
Consult either a CPA or a tax attorney.


&gt;4) If your stocks have risen and your sell shares then use the profits
&gt;to pay down a mortgage, which is tax deductible,

Wrong. A mortgage is not tax deductible. The interest on a
mortgage may be tax deductible.
Consult either a CPA or a tax attorney.

&gt; does that mean the
&gt;sale of your shares is exempt form capital gains and income tax?

This is a non-sequitur and it doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure even CPA or tax attorney can help you.


&gt;Are there other ways to time the sale or other disposition of shares to
&gt;reduce tax burdern?

Consult either a...sigh...

&gt;
&gt;comments welcome

Good luck.

&gt;the sarp

--
Regards,
Ephraim

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#3: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-09 22:16:47 by Dr Tormento

&quot;sarp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:1141935719.768133.49270
@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:


&gt;
&gt; comments welcome


Is this your first visit to this planet?

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#4: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-09 22:25:56 by PeterL

sarp wrote:
&gt; 1) If a stock goes up but you don't sell, your income has increased.

No your income has not increased. You net worth has increased.

&gt; Even if the increase has been plowed back into buying additional
&gt; shares, do you owe income tax on this for that year?
&gt;

Unless you sell the stock, you can't plow anything back for additional
shares. Unless you are talking about dividends.

&gt; 2) Is their a way to time this by the tax laws so that the tax burden
&gt; can be shifted into a year in which you lost money, thus being covered
&gt; by a deduction?
&gt;

It's too late now to shift anything from last year's stock gains.

&gt; 3) If a stock goes up and you do sell some shares, do you owe INCOME
&gt; TAX AND CAPITAL GAINS TAX on the increase?
&gt;

Cap gain tax, which is part of your income tax.

&gt; I am given to understand, that If you wait one year and a day before
&gt; selling shares, certain taxes like capital gains go down?
&gt;

Long term cap gains are taxed at usually a lower rate than short term
cap gains.

&gt; 4) If your stocks have risen and your sell shares then use the profits
&gt; to pay down a mortgage, which is tax deductible, does that mean the
&gt; sale of your shares is exempt form capital gains and income tax?
&gt;

No.

&gt; Are there other ways to time the sale or other disposition of shares to
&gt; reduce tax burdern?
&gt;

Sell your loses to off set you gains and other incomes, but you have to
do it before 12/31.

&gt; comments welcome
&gt;
&gt; the sarp

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#5: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-09 22:35:45 by blash

Dr Tormento wrote:

&gt; &quot;sarp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:1141935719.768133.49270
&gt; @e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; comments welcome
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Is this your first visit to this planet?

Tch, tch....now you did it.....on an equally clever thread of his, he
replied:

&quot;This thread is not for joke posts. now go away.&quot;

Now, be prepared to be chastised.....

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#6: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-09 22:44:23 by Arthur

Is that a fact?
Try spending it.

arthur
==

On 9 Mar 2006 12:21:59 -0800, &quot;sarp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;1) If a stock goes up but you don't sell, your income has increased.

Report this message

#7: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-09 22:47:17 by Arthur

Wait, we haven't yet been told what he is selling. Stay tuned.

a
==

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 21:16:47 GMT, Dr Tormento &lt;<a href="mailto:reply&#64;togroup.com" target="_blank">reply&#64;togroup.com</a>&gt;
wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt; Is this your first visit to this planet?

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#8: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-09 23:06:05 by LuckyDucky

&gt; &gt; Are there other ways to time the sale or other disposition of shares to
&gt; &gt; reduce tax burdern?
&gt; &gt;

sure.. heres one for ya :

*Put all the shares into a Charitable Trust.
*Use the dividends &amp; Interest throwoff from the trust to buy an equivalent
amount of Life Insurance, w your kids as beneficiaries.
* then die.

Now you've just royally screwed the Gov , paying them 0% tax ( and doing good
for charity at the same time).

The Charity gets the shares to sell Tax Free.
Yur Kids get the equiv value in a Tax Free life insurance payment.

the only downside is you have to Die to do it. ;-)

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#9: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-09 23:25:22 by Dr Tormento

Blash &lt;<a href="mailto:blash1&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">blash1&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote in news:C03609E1.2D477%<a href="mailto:blash1&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">blash1&#64;comcast.net</a>:


&gt;
&gt; Tch, tch....now you did it.....on an equally clever thread of his, he
&gt; replied:
&gt;
&gt; &quot;This thread is not for joke posts. now go away.&quot;


Ironically, HIS posts were the funniest part of the thread...

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#10: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 00:00:23 by blash

in article <a href="mailto:Xns97819308FD9D1rforschrcncom&#64;70.169.32.36" target="_blank">Xns97819308FD9D1rforschrcncom&#64;70.169.32.36</a>, Dr Tormento at
<a href="mailto:reply&#64;togroup.com" target="_blank">reply&#64;togroup.com</a> wrote on 3/9/06 5:25 PM:

&gt; Blash &lt;<a href="mailto:blash1&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">blash1&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote in news:C03609E1.2D477%<a href="mailto:blash1&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">blash1&#64;comcast.net</a>:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Tch, tch....now you did it.....on an equally clever thread of his, he
&gt;&gt; replied:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;This thread is not for joke posts. now go away.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Ironically, HIS posts were the funniest part of the thread...

I know, but he missed that.......

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#11: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 04:37:58 by Lubow

Just remember one thing... Our taxation system is based on transactions. No
transaction -- no tax. If you receive money for something -- an asset or
your labor -- it's taxable. E.g. if something gains or loses value, like
your house or your stamp collection, there is no tax unless you convert it
to cash.

With this simple rule, you should be able to answer all your questions.
--
Lubow

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#12: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 05:41:15 by Arthur

Since inflation is a tax, should inflation be taxed and therefore
qualify as double taxation?

Do we always elect the one who steals the most?

a
==

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:37:58 -0500, &quot;Lubow&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:lubow&#64;covad.net" target="_blank">lubow&#64;covad.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Just remember one thing... Our taxation system is based on transactions. No
&gt;transaction -- no tax. If you receive money for something -- an asset or
&gt;your labor -- it's taxable. E.g. if something gains or loses value, like
&gt;your house or your stamp collection, there is no tax unless you convert it
&gt;to cash.
&gt;
&gt;With this simple rule, you should be able to answer all your questions.

Report this message

#13: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 07:27:41 by Bill Reid

LuckyDucky &lt;<a href="mailto:lukyduky&#64;dodgeit.com" target="_blank">lukyduky&#64;dodgeit.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:hF1Qf.4553$<a href="mailto:8w2.4484&#64;bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net..." target="_blank">8w2.4484&#64;bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...</a>
&gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Are there other ways to time the sale or other disposition of shares
to
&gt; &gt; &gt; reduce tax burdern?
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; sure.. heres one for ya :
&gt;
&gt; *Put all the shares into a Charitable Trust.
&gt; *Use the dividends &amp; Interest throwoff from the trust to buy an
equivalent
&gt; amount of Life Insurance, w your kids as beneficiaries.
&gt; * then die.
&gt;
&gt; Now you've just royally screwed the Gov , paying them 0% tax ( and doing
good
&gt; for charity at the same time).
&gt;
&gt; The Charity gets the shares to sell Tax Free.
&gt; Yur Kids get the equiv value in a Tax Free life insurance payment.
&gt;
&gt; the only downside is you have to Die to do it. ;-)
&gt;
As long as I get to screw the government, I'm in!

---
William Ernest Reid
Post count: 281

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#14: to LuckyDucky Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 09:27:44 by the_sarp

LuckyDucky wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; Are there other ways to time the sale or other disposition of shares to
&gt; &gt; &gt; reduce tax burdern?
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt; sure.. heres one for ya :
&gt;
&gt; *Put all the shares into a Charitable Trust.
&gt; *Use the dividends &amp; Interest throwoff from the trust to buy an equivalent
&gt; amount of Life Insurance, w your kids as beneficiaries.
&gt; * then die.
&gt;
&gt; Now you've just royally screwed the Gov , paying them 0% tax ( and doing good
&gt; for charity at the same time).

Couldn't you do the same with any vehicle with tax deferrment?

You could then withdraw at a later time, like 20 years, and just
withdraw at a low tax bracket amount or at least one that did not eat
into the principle.

Or perhaps another type of trust (e.g., Special Needs Trust) could be
set up that would provide you, while living, with an income, then be
donated to your heirs after your death.

So perhaps it is not necessary to die?

the sarp

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#15: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 09:29:49 by the_sarp

Ephraim wrote:
&gt;
&gt; Consult either a...sigh...
&gt;
&gt; Regards,
&gt; Ephraim

Ephraim:

you gave up here. Maybe you are getting a little too old to play this
game anymore.

the sarp

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#16: to PeterL: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 09:40:39 by the_sarp

PeterL wrote:

thanks for this response.

In the statement below, do you mean that you cannot claim a loss until
you actually sell the shares the went down in value?

Wouldn't it be enough to declare to the IRS that the, for example, 100
shares you own were once valued at $100 and are now valued at $50? You
would still own the same number of shares.

&gt; Sell your loses to off set you gains and other incomes, but you have to
&gt; do it before 12/31.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; comments welcome
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; the sarp

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#17: Re: to PeterL: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 10:01:53 by Arthur

If you are recognized by the IRS as a professional you report mark to
market but not otherwise as they claim it is a Hobby ...

a
==

On 10 Mar 2006 00:40:39 -0800, &quot;sarp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;PeterL wrote:
&gt;
&gt;thanks for this response.
&gt;
&gt;In the statement below, do you mean that you cannot claim a loss until
&gt;you actually sell the shares the went down in value?
&gt;
&gt;Wouldn't it be enough to declare to the IRS that the, for example, 100
&gt;shares you own were once valued at $100 and are now valued at $50? You
&gt;would still own the same number of shares.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sell your loses to off set you gains and other incomes, but you have to
&gt;&gt; do it before 12/31.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; comments welcome
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt; the sarp

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#18: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 14:25:24 by Pops

&gt; We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.
&gt; Aesop



arthur wrote:
&gt; Since inflation is a tax, should inflation be taxed and therefore
&gt; qualify as double taxation?
&gt;
&gt; Do we always elect the one who steals the most?
&gt;
&gt; a
&gt; ==
&gt;
&gt; On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:37:58 -0500, &quot;Lubow&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:lubow&#64;covad.net" target="_blank">lubow&#64;covad.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Just remember one thing... Our taxation system is based on transactions. No
&gt;&gt; transaction -- no tax. If you receive money for something -- an asset or
&gt;&gt; your labor -- it's taxable. E.g. if something gains or loses value, like
&gt;&gt; your house or your stamp collection, there is no tax unless you convert it
&gt;&gt; to cash.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; With this simple rule, you should be able to answer all your questions.

Report this message

#19: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 15:18:09 by BrunoR

Pops wrote:

&gt;&gt; We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.

&gt;&gt; Aesop

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#20: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 15:24:52 by Ephraim

On 10 Mar 2006 00:29:49 -0800, &quot;sarp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">the_sarp&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;Ephraim wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Consult either a...sigh...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Regards,
&gt;&gt; Ephraim
&gt;
&gt;Ephraim:
&gt;
&gt;you gave up here. Maybe you are getting a little too old to play this
&gt;game anymore.
&gt;
&gt;the sarp

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PLONK! &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
--
Regards,
Ephraim

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#21: Re: to PeterL: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements

Posted on 2006-03-10 18:10:05 by Don S

sarp wrote:

&gt;PeterL wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Wouldn't it be enough to declare to the IRS that the, for example, 100
&gt;shares you own were once valued at $100 and are now valued at $50? You
&gt;would still own the same number of shares.
&gt;
&gt;
You have never filled out your own taxes I take it. Did the I.R.S. send
you a little booklet, if so read through the instructions until you
understand them then you will have some idea of what you need to do. If
they didn't send you a booklet them go to their web site and download it.

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#22: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements-another question

Posted on 2006-03-12 00:02:05 by the_sarp

If you have an account with a broker and you sell a stock that has made
money but do not collect the cash, instead immediate buy shares in
something else-- do you owe income and cap gains on any money?

the sarp

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#23: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements-another question

Posted on 2006-03-12 02:00:57 by bartonmj

If you have an account with a broker and you sell a stock that has made
money but do not collect the cash, instead immediate buy shares in
something else-- do you owe income and cap gains on any money?

the sarp



Fuck no.

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#24: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements-another question

Posted on 2006-03-12 02:10:56 by blash

sarp writes:

&gt; If you have an account with a broker and you sell a stock that has made
&gt; money but do not collect the cash, instead immediate buy shares in
&gt; something else-- do you owe income and cap gains on any money?
&gt;
&gt; the sarp

Hasn't anyone figured out that this is either some kid trying to be a
troll or someone who has spent his life in a closet???

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#25: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements-another question

Posted on 2006-03-12 06:31:47 by Arthur

Troll with an undergrad in English Comp and Masters in Lying. Working
towards a PhD in Master Slavery Relations.

a
==

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:10:56 -0500, Blash &lt;<a href="mailto:blash1&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">blash1&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;sarp writes:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; If you have an account with a broker and you sell a stock that has made
&gt;&gt; money but do not collect the cash, instead immediate buy shares in
&gt;&gt; something else-- do you owe income and cap gains on any money?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; the sarp
&gt;
&gt; Hasn't anyone figured out that this is either some kid trying to be a
&gt;troll or someone who has spent his life in a closet???

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#26: Re: Tax on Stock Sales and Movements-another question

Posted on 2006-03-12 18:48:02 by Don S

sarp wrote:

&gt;If you have an account with a broker and you sell a stock that has made
&gt;money but do not collect the cash, instead immediate buy shares in
&gt;something else-- do you owe income and cap gains on any money?
&gt;
&gt;the sarp
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
What grade of school are you in, the 6th?

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