gold/metals fund?

Any advice on how I could invest in gold and precious metals? I have
traditionally invested in typical mutual funds through T. Rowe Price (in
addition to 401k, etc through my employer). But with the world and
economies and oil supplies in a state of uncertainty, would it not be wise
of me to put some of my investments into gold and precious metals as sort
of "insurace" should markets stagnate or collapse? How would I do this--
should I buy into some sort of metals mutual fund, or should I buy gold
coins and keep them in safe or safe deposit box at a bank? Are there other
ways to have insurance against economic collapse, like a short fund or
hedge fund or whatever? Any help appreciated!

Re: gold/metals fund?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: gold/metals fund?

"Proteus" <> wrote in message
news:
> Any advice on how I could invest in gold and precious metals? I have
> traditionally invested in typical mutual funds through T. Rowe Price (in
> addition to 401k, etc through my employer). But with the world and
> economies and oil supplies in a state of uncertainty, would it not be wise
> of me to put some of my investments into gold and precious metals as sort
> of "insurace" should markets stagnate or collapse? How would I do this--
> should I buy into some sort of metals mutual fund, or should I buy gold
> coins and keep them in safe or safe deposit box at a bank? Are there other
> ways to have insurance against economic collapse, like a short fund or
> hedge fund or whatever? Any help appreciated!

There are gold mutual funds you can buy into. Certain experts recommend 5%
of your portfolio to be in them, but it should be added that precious metals
are volatile. Vanguard's VGPMX is less risky than most in this sector with a
SD of 22%, which is pretty high for a mutual fund.

I'd also add that if there is ever a real, honest-to-God economic collapse,
a gold fund won't help you much. Actual gold coinage might, but I'd be more
inclined to invest in real estate, international equities, and then (if
things were to get REALLY bad) weapons, generators, ammunition, MREs, and
diesel fuel.

Mike

Re: gold/metals fund?

You could open a brokerage account with a discount broker and buy shares of
IAU or GLD.



"Proteus" <> wrote in message
news:
> Any advice on how I could invest in gold and precious metals? I have
> traditionally invested in typical mutual funds through T. Rowe Price (in
> addition to 401k, etc through my employer). But with the world and
> economies and oil supplies in a state of uncertainty, would it not be wise
> of me to put some of my investments into gold and precious metals as sort
> of "insurace" should markets stagnate or collapse? How would I do this--
> should I buy into some sort of metals mutual fund, or should I buy gold
> coins and keep them in safe or safe deposit box at a bank? Are there other
> ways to have insurance against economic collapse, like a short fund or
> hedge fund or whatever? Any help appreciated!
>

Re: gold/metals fund?

Hi Proteus,

There are many ways to invest in gold and the other precious metals -
bullion, stocks, funds and futures. Much of the choice depends upon
WHY you want to invest. If it's survivalism, you might want to think
about bullion. If a hedge against inflation, a bit of a holding in a
mutual fund should do the trick. If it's speculation, you need to go
with stocks, or even futures.

Bullion. The best type are your coins, and of these the American Eagle
series is preferred because it's easily exchanged. Silver comes in 1
oz., while gold and platinum come in 1 oz., 1/2 oz., 1/4 oz. and 1/10
oz. The proof versions you can buy directly from the mint off their
website. However, proof coins are for collectors and have a sizeable
premium that is very hard to ever recover in the world of bullion.
Much better are their uncirculated versions which they sell thru a
group of authorized dealers. The best prices can be found in either
Coin World or Numismatic News which you can find at your newstand. Do
not EVER buy a coin off of a TV program or commercial. They are
normally over-priced by between 50-100% over retail. With bullion,
you don't really need to warehouse or insure, unless you're buying
gobs. A roll of 1 oz. gold eagles (20) stands about 3" tall and is
about the size of a quarter. It costs about $9K. If you can't find a
safe place around the house to stash this . . .
I own a little of both gold and silver.

Mutual funds. There are golds and there are precious metal funds. The
latter give you exposure to silver, platinum, palladium, etc. . . . and
spread your risk. In fact, Vanguard's VGPMX even invests in uranium
and stuff. I would recommend that you stay with a pm fund rather than
a pure play gold fund. I say this because I feel that the other metals
can have a stablizing effect on the gold action AND even provide a
greater potential profit as some say exists with silver. Examples are
Rydex RYPMX, Tocqueville TGLDX and US Global UNWPX. Wifey owns VGPMX
and we own TGLDX taxable and UNWPS deferred.

Stocks. If you want to speculate on gold, or silver going up. Or you
want to really focus on silver or platinum, etc., you almost have to go
with individual stocks. There are bunches in every shape and size.
For examples, you can try the websites at www.gold-eagle.com or
www.kitco.com. I'm riding GG, GIF, AUY for gold, CDE and PAAS for
silver, PAL for platinum, FCX and BHP for copper.

Futures. I'm clueless so you're on your own. However, I would
strongly suggest that you avoid this arena unless you know what you are
doing.

best,

rono

Re: gold/metals fund?

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:44:35 +0000, MichaelC wrote:

...
> There are gold mutual funds you can buy into. Certain experts recommend 5%
> of your portfolio to be in them, but it should be added that precious metals
> are volatile. Vanguard's VGPMX is less risky than most in this sector with a
> SD of 22%, which is pretty high for a mutual fund.

Sounds good I will look into such a fund.


> I'd also add that if there is ever a real, honest-to-God economic collapse,
> a gold fund won't help you much. Actual gold coinage might, but I'd be more
> inclined to invest in real estate, international equities, and then (if
> things were to get REALLY bad) weapons, generators, ammunition, MREs, and
> diesel fuel.
>

What about mutual funds (REITs?) that invest in real estate? Or would it
be better to just buy some land? REITs seem more liquid, but I have no
knowledge of this.

Re: gold/metals fund?

"Proteus" <> wrote in message
news:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:44:35 +0000, MichaelC wrote:
>
> ..
> > There are gold mutual funds you can buy into. Certain experts recommend
5%
> > of your portfolio to be in them, but it should be added that precious
metals
> > are volatile. Vanguard's VGPMX is less risky than most in this sector
with a
> > SD of 22%, which is pretty high for a mutual fund.
>
> Sounds good I will look into such a fund.
>
>
> > I'd also add that if there is ever a real, honest-to-God economic
collapse,
> > a gold fund won't help you much. Actual gold coinage might, but I'd be
more
> > inclined to invest in real estate, international equities, and then (if
> > things were to get REALLY bad) weapons, generators, ammunition, MREs,
and
> > diesel fuel.
> >
>
> What about mutual funds (REITs?) that invest in real estate? Or would it
> be better to just buy some land? REITs seem more liquid, but I have no
> knowledge of this.

I have a REIT index fund (institutional) that tracks the Morgan Stanley REIT
index. It's up about 11% this year, not shabby, but was doing much better
before Greenspan started to talk down the real estate market. I think having
some money in a REIT is a necessary component of any balanced portfolio,
since the movements of real estate (as measured by the Morgan Stanley Index)
don't correlate in the slightest with the equity markets. I have just under
15% of my total assets in it, but I'm probably going to back that off to 10%
or less at the first of the year.

I'm sure Vanguard has a decent REIT fund.

Mike

Re: gold/metals fund?

Proteus <> wrote:
> What about mutual funds (REITs?) that invest in real estate? Or would it
> be better to just buy some land? REITs seem more liquid, but I have no
> knowledge of this.

Really - a REIT is the stupidest thing to buy. They are very cyclical
and you're gonna lose on them if you buy into it now. Real estate
is over valued and will be declining in price for a while now.

Fannie Mae is in trouble. Toll Brothers is set to crash - the stocks
don't look good IMO. I can't imagine that REITs are doing any better
these last few months.

I'd say energy & precious metals are a pretty good bet right now.
Especially alternative energies.

I own some GLD & have held onto Fidelity's metal fund which has done
very well over the last few years.

A lot analysts predict that gold will make another run the way it did
in the 70's.

But remember - a lot of analysts predict a lot of stupid things :)

I agree with them on this one though.

-Mike

Re: gold/metals fund?

Proteus wrote:

> What about mutual funds (REITs?) that invest in real estate? Or would it
> be better to just buy some land? REITs seem more liquid, but I have no
> knowledge of this.

Proteus,

I'd be careful right now with REIT's. They've had an enormous run, but
the FED is hellbent on taking the wind out of the housing bubble and
REIT's is it.

Better for you if you're looking for something defensive, is to simply
buy a well rounded natural resource fund that covers the squares.
Examples are Price New Era PRNEX, RS Global NR RSNRX and US Global NR PSPFX.

best,

rono

Re: gold/metals fund?

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:44:35 +0000, MichaelC wrote:
....
> I'd also add that if there is ever a real, honest-to-God economic collapse,
> a gold fund won't help you much. Actual gold coinage might, but I'd be more
> inclined to invest in real estate, international equities, and then (if
> things were to get REALLY bad) weapons, generators, ammunition, MREs, and
> diesel fuel.
....

I do have perhaps 20% of my mutual funds in international, thinking I
should also buy some in asian funds? As for real estate, everybody talks
about a housing bubble, but I am guessing that is related to homes, not
land, so maybe I should buy some land? I just talked to a colleague today
at work and he bought some oceanfront land on an island in Belize;
wondering if I should considering buying some foreign land, perhaps even
somewhere I might want to live when I retire. Anybody have thoughts on buy
real estate land as a hedge against an economic collapse? If so, where is
best place to buy land?

Re: gold/metals fund?

"Proteus" <> wrote in message
news:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:44:35 +0000, MichaelC wrote:
> ...
> > I'd also add that if there is ever a real, honest-to-God economic
collapse,
> > a gold fund won't help you much. Actual gold coinage might, but I'd be
more
> > inclined to invest in real estate, international equities, and then (if
> > things were to get REALLY bad) weapons, generators, ammunition, MREs,
and
> > diesel fuel.
> ...
>
> I do have perhaps 20% of my mutual funds in international, thinking I
> should also buy some in asian funds? As for real estate, everybody talks
> about a housing bubble, but I am guessing that is related to homes, not
> land, so maybe I should buy some land? I just talked to a colleague today
> at work and he bought some oceanfront land on an island in Belize;
> wondering if I should considering buying some foreign land, perhaps even
> somewhere I might want to live when I retire. Anybody have thoughts on buy
> real estate land as a hedge against an economic collapse? If so, where is
> best place to buy land?

Anyplace you can get it cheap, like, under 5K an acre with improvements. I
think an acre or two someplace where you wouldn't mind retiring to is an
excellent hedge against serious financial collapse.

Mike

Re: gold/metals fund?

Proteus wrote:

> Are there other
> ways to have insurance against economic collapse, like a short fund or
> hedge fund or whatever?

You should have an emergency fund of about 6 months worth of cash (at
least). Convert it from dollars to Swiss francs. Open one or more
accounts at Swiss banks and deposit the cash in there.

Even during the height of World War II, with Europe devastated by war,
Switzerland's neutrality ensured its survival, and its banks remained
intact. If any nation's banking system could survive a worldwide
economic calamity, it would be the Swiss.

In this war on terrorism, it's stupid to depend on the Federal Deposit
Insurance Corporation to bail out American banks. If al-Qaeda detonated
a nuclear warhead in Washington DC, it could devastate the city and
destroy most Government agencies like FDIC. (Under a program dubbed
Continuity of Government, the U.S. has emergency war plans to save the
Federal Reserve System in the event of nuclear war. But not the FDIC or
Social Security.)


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Re: gold/metals fund?

MichaelC wrote:

> "Proteus" <> wrote in message
> news:
>
>>Any advice on how I could invest in gold and precious metals? I have
>>traditionally invested in typical mutual funds through T. Rowe Price (in
>>addition to 401k, etc through my employer). But with the world and
>>economies and oil supplies in a state of uncertainty, would it not be wise
>>of me to put some of my investments into gold and precious metals as sort
>>of "insurace" should markets stagnate or collapse? How would I do this--
>>should I buy into some sort of metals mutual fund, or should I buy gold
>>coins and keep them in safe or safe deposit box at a bank? Are there other
>>ways to have insurance against economic collapse, like a short fund or
>>hedge fund or whatever? Any help appreciated!
>
>
> There are gold mutual funds you can buy into. Certain experts recommend 5%
> of your portfolio to be in them, but it should be added that precious metals
> are volatile. Vanguard's VGPMX is less risky than most in this sector with a
> SD of 22%, which is pretty high for a mutual fund.
>
> I'd also add that if there is ever a real, honest-to-God economic collapse,
> a gold fund won't help you much. Actual gold coinage might, but I'd be more
> inclined to invest in real estate, international equities, and then (if
> things were to get REALLY bad) weapons, generators, ammunition, MREs, and
> diesel fuel.

My first thought would be to purchase a villa in Switzerland and go live
there. Switzerland remained neutral and intact thru two world wars.
Even Osama bin Laden hasn't said anything bad about Switzerland.


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Re: gold/metals fund?

"Steven L." <> wrote in message
news:mz__e.4717$
> MichaelC wrote:
>
> > "Proteus" <> wrote in message
> > news:
> >
> >>Any advice on how I could invest in gold and precious metals? I have
> >>traditionally invested in typical mutual funds through T. Rowe Price (in
> >>addition to 401k, etc through my employer). But with the world and
> >>economies and oil supplies in a state of uncertainty, would it not be
wise
> >>of me to put some of my investments into gold and precious metals as
sort
> >>of "insurace" should markets stagnate or collapse? How would I do this--
> >>should I buy into some sort of metals mutual fund, or should I buy gold
> >>coins and keep them in safe or safe deposit box at a bank? Are there
other
> >>ways to have insurance against economic collapse, like a short fund or
> >>hedge fund or whatever? Any help appreciated!
> >
> >
> > There are gold mutual funds you can buy into. Certain experts recommend
5%
> > of your portfolio to be in them, but it should be added that precious
metals
> > are volatile. Vanguard's VGPMX is less risky than most in this sector
with a
> > SD of 22%, which is pretty high for a mutual fund.
> >
> > I'd also add that if there is ever a real, honest-to-God economic
collapse,
> > a gold fund won't help you much. Actual gold coinage might, but I'd be
more
> > inclined to invest in real estate, international equities, and then (if
> > things were to get REALLY bad) weapons, generators, ammunition, MREs,
and
> > diesel fuel.
>
> My first thought would be to purchase a villa in Switzerland and go live
> there. Switzerland remained neutral and intact thru two world wars.
> Even Osama bin Laden hasn't said anything bad about Switzerland.

Well, there are Caribbean islands that would likely work too (the poster
mentioned Belize, which is a valid possibility), but if the economy in the
country which is nearly 50% of the world's economy crashes, there aren't any
places where the economy will be good.

Mike

Re: gold/metals fund?

Howdy all,

Well if you want to guard against complete and total collapse we're
talking more survivalist stuff rather than investing.

However, complete and total collapse is such a small possibility that
I'm not sure it's really worthwhile to do a lot of planning. Peter
Lynch said in one of his books, that 'if everything collapses, we'll
all be fishing from the bridge'.

Now, you can prepare for 90+% of eventualities simply by developing a
good level of financial independence with maximum diversity.

Many ideas have been tossed out and they're all good. Buying some land
in a place like Belize and perhaps up in Canada too. Making sure that
these and your house in the states were equipped for emergencies -
enough of a lot to grow veggies, backup generator, wood stove or
fireplace, well water, canned food, etc. Having an overseas bank
account. Having some gold and silver bullion coins on hand. Having
cash on hand in different currencies (US, swiss, german, yen, etc.).
Having investments in different brokerages -both domestic and foreign.
Having no debt.

just some thoughts,

rono

Re: gold/metals fund?

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:13:05 +0000, Steven L. wrote:
,,
> You should have an emergency fund of about 6 months worth of cash (at
> least). Convert it from dollars to Swiss francs. Open one or more
> accounts at Swiss banks and deposit the cash in there.

That just seems so Jason Bourne, secret agent and martinis and secret
affairs type stuff (LOL)-- I neve thought of opening a swiss bank account.
I guess it could be done remotely through wiring money, etc.? I definately
have 6 mo of cash, sitting in a Prime Reserve fund at T. Rowe, I guess I
could shift it to something like swiss francs if that made sense.


> Even during the height of World War II, with Europe devastated by war,
> Switzerland's neutrality ensured its survival, and its banks remained
> intact. If any nation's banking system could survive a worldwide
> economic calamity, it would be the Swiss.

Why would that be? (I do not meant this in an accusatory fasion, I really
want to understand why.) I know in WW2 it made sense for the nazis to stay
out of Swiz., but that was an issue of might/force. But why would Swiz.
survive a global energy/economic collapse compared to the rest of us poor
saps (smile)?


> In this war on terrorism, it's stupid to depend on the Federal Deposit
> Insurance Corporation to bail out American banks. If al-Qaeda detonated
> a nuclear warhead in Washington DC, it could devastate the city and
> destroy most Government agencies like FDIC. (Under a program dubbed
> Continuity of Government, the U.S. has emergency war plans to save the
> Federal Reserve System in the event of nuclear war. But not the FDIC or
> Social Security.)

Interesting.

Re: gold/metals fund?

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:12:52 +0000, MichaelC wrote:
....
> Anyplace you can get it cheap, like, under 5K an acre with improvements. I
> think an acre or two someplace where you wouldn't mind retiring to is an
> excellent hedge against serious financial collapse.
...

My friend thinks I should buy some land to build on, build a home with
solar and wind power, room for a garden, etc, basically a survivalist type
set up. But I am a single professional, and told him I would basically
turn into a crazy man in the woods if I did that! I need people around me.
But I could see thinking of living in a bigger city like Paris, etc. so I
could give up my car and use mass transit, give up owning a home (maybe I
could invest in a condo or whatnot in Paris, etc).

Re: gold/metals fund?

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:14:26 +0000, Steven L. wrote:
....
> My first thought would be to purchase a villa in Switzerland and go live
> there. Switzerland remained neutral and intact thru two world wars.
> Even Osama bin Laden hasn't said anything bad about Switzerland.

Hey even terrorists can not hate people who yodle on mountaintops! (maybe
they liken yodling to their calls to allah atop their mosques!)

Re: gold/metals fund?

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:31:43 +0000, MichaelC wrote:
...
> Well, there are Caribbean islands that would likely work too (the poster
> mentioned Belize, which is a valid possibility), but if the economy in the
> country which is nearly 50% of the world's economy crashes, there aren't any
> places where the economy will be good.

The interesting thing is my friend bought beachfront on a small island of
Belize, but then I mentioned how scientists are showing how the artic ice
caps are disappearing at an alarming rate-- the ice could be GONE in 20-50
years from global warming-- meaning the sea levels will rise enough so
that his island might be underwater. Bad investment if your beachfront
goes underwater. Bizarre times we live in.

Re: gold/metals fund?

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 04:50:41 -0700, rono wrote:
> Well if you want to guard against complete and total collapse we're
> talking more survivalist stuff rather than investing.
> However, complete and total collapse is such a small possibility that
> I'm not sure it's really worthwhile to do a lot of planning. Peter
> Lynch said in one of his books, that 'if everything collapses, we'll
> all be fishing from the bridge'....

I am not so sure how small the possibility is, one thing that really
worries me is predictions that world oil supplies could go dry in 20-30
years. Imagine no gasoline for cars, no heating oil, no fuel for
factories. Now I really hope those predictions are wrong. There is
uncertainty because the Saudis do not want to reveal how much oil they
have. But oil is a non-renewable resource, and we have been sucking it out
from its pools for almost a century now-- at some point we have to hear
that familiar sound when you suck on your straw to get the last drop of
the Mister Misty (frozen beverage) at the bottom of your glass! I hope to
live another 30-40 years, so I would hate to be an old geezer right when
the world goes down the crapper!

Re: gold/metals fund?

"Proteus" <> wrote in message
news:
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:12:52 +0000, MichaelC wrote:
> ...
> > Anyplace you can get it cheap, like, under 5K an acre with improvements.
I
> > think an acre or two someplace where you wouldn't mind retiring to is an
> > excellent hedge against serious financial collapse.
> ..
>
> My friend thinks I should buy some land to build on, build a home with
> solar and wind power, room for a garden, etc, basically a survivalist type
> set up. But I am a single professional, and told him I would basically
> turn into a crazy man in the woods if I did that! I need people around me.
> But I could see thinking of living in a bigger city like Paris, etc. so I
> could give up my car and use mass transit, give up owning a home (maybe I
> could invest in a condo or whatnot in Paris, etc).

Well, being a wildeyed survivalist stereotype is an extreme, but living in a
condo in a big city with six hours food and money on hand is the other.
Again the New Orleans lesson is that if you view preparedness as a
continuum, where the guys in the cabins with generators and food and guns
are on one extreme, then the way most of us live (in a big city, with six
hours food and money on hand -- IOW, not prepared at all) is the other
extreme.

Mike

Re: gold/metals fund?

"Proteus" <> wrote in message
news:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:31:43 +0000, MichaelC wrote:
> ..
> > Well, there are Caribbean islands that would likely work too (the poster
> > mentioned Belize, which is a valid possibility), but if the economy in
the
> > country which is nearly 50% of the world's economy crashes, there aren't
any
> > places where the economy will be good.
>
> The interesting thing is my friend bought beachfront on a small island of
> Belize, but then I mentioned how scientists are showing how the artic ice
> caps are disappearing at an alarming rate-- the ice could be GONE in 20-50
> years from global warming-- meaning the sea levels will rise enough so
> that his island might be underwater. Bad investment if your beachfront
> goes underwater. Bizarre times we live in.

Well, yea. I saw an article the other day where some scientists were
claiming that we had reached the "tipping point" of global warming, where
now the trend is irreversible. I thought that was great news, since it means
we don't have to argue about it anymore :-)

Mike

Re: gold/metals fund?

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:21:01 +0000, MichaelC wrote:
...
> Well, being a wildeyed survivalist stereotype is an extreme, but living in a
> condo in a big city with six hours food and money on hand is the other.
> Again the New Orleans lesson is that if you view preparedness as a
> continuum, where the guys in the cabins with generators and food and guns
> are on one extreme, then the way most of us live (in a big city, with six
> hours food and money on hand -- IOW, not prepared at all) is the other
> extreme.
...

(hurricane) Katrina, and also the impending global pandemic from Asian
Bird Flu, at least made me wake up and decide to store some food, bottled
water, some medical supplies, and cash to ride out a month without help
from anybody. But yeah I am like most, living in the city, and can not
see myself living out in the woods.