Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

I think I alrealdy know the answer, but I want to check anyways.

I'm closing on a house tomorrow in MA and just got the HUD-1 from the
bank. Looking at the fees, I see that most of them are higher than
what was quoted to me on the Good Faith Estimate. In total by about
33%. This doesn't include added monies such as taxes, insurance, and
interest. I already know about those and have no problem with them.

My question is can I do anything about it? At this point, I already
have 5% down and have made arrangements so backing out or looking for
another bank is not really an option.

Going forward, how can I avoid this from happening again? I'll be
financing again within a couple of months.

I appreciate any advice.
Thanks.

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

ap wrote:
> I think I alrealdy know the answer, but I want to check anyways.
>
> I'm closing on a house tomorrow in MA and just got the HUD-1 from the
> bank. Looking at the fees, I see that most of them are higher than
> what was quoted to me on the Good Faith Estimate. In total by about
> 33%. This doesn't include added monies such as taxes, insurance, and
> interest. I already know about those and have no problem with them.
>
> My question is can I do anything about it? At this point, I already
> have 5% down and have made arrangements so backing out or looking for
> another bank is not really an option.
>
> Going forward, how can I avoid this from happening again? I'll be
> financing again within a couple of months.
>
> I appreciate any advice.
> Thanks.
>

Call the bank's lawyer today and ask him why there's such a discrepancy.
33% is pretty big.

It could be an innocent mistake (e.g., the bank raised it's fees right
after they sent you the good faith estimate).

In the future you can ask for the HUD-1 early than just the day before;
e.g. a week.

In any case stand your ground. Everyone involved wants to close ASAP; the
lawyer can update and print out a new HUD-1 form in just a few minutes.

If he doesn't, close and then complain loudly to the bank.

/dan

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

Daniel Ganek wrote:
> ap wrote:
>
>> I think I alrealdy know the answer, but I want to check anyways.
>>
>> I'm closing on a house tomorrow in MA and just got the HUD-1 from the
>> bank. Looking at the fees, I see that most of them are higher than
>> what was quoted to me on the Good Faith Estimate. In total by about
>> 33%. This doesn't include added monies such as taxes, insurance, and
>> interest. I already know about those and have no problem with them.
>>
>> My question is can I do anything about it? At this point, I already
>> have 5% down and have made arrangements so backing out or looking for
>> another bank is not really an option.
>>
>> Going forward, how can I avoid this from happening again? I'll be
>> financing again within a couple of months.
>>
>> I appreciate any advice.
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> Call the bank's lawyer today and ask him why there's such a discrepancy.
> 33% is pretty big.
>
> It could be an innocent mistake (e.g., the bank raised it's fees right
> after they sent you the good faith estimate).
>
> In the future you can ask for the HUD-1 early than just the day before;
> e.g. a week.
>
> In any case stand your ground. Everyone involved wants to close ASAP; the
> lawyer can update and print out a new HUD-1 form in just a few minutes.
>
> If he doesn't, close and then complain loudly to the bank.
>
> /dan

Also throw out terms like "unfair and deceptive trade practices" see

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

"Daniel Ganek" <> wrote in message
news:dhh6cc$ml3$

> In any case stand your ground. Everyone involved wants to close ASAP; the
> lawyer can update and print out a new HUD-1 form in just a few minutes.
>
> If he doesn't, close and then complain loudly to the bank.

Is it possible to delay closing without canceling the deal? For example, say
you need another week or two to finish the details and scrape up your down
payment, or some such. There is a lot of flu going around, so maybe you
could get a delay for medical reasons. Just some thoughts. Indeed everyone
wants to close ASAP, and a delay might get their attention and induce them
to look over the fees more carefully. Was your offer conditional on
inspection? You probably have signed off already, but if you didn't you
could hint that maybe you are not satisfied with the results of the
inspection.

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

A serious problem with GFEs, specifically as to how they relate to a
purchase, is that the loan officer creates one, and the selling agent
creates one -- the selling agent creates his through Escrow.

The problem is that the lender and escrow don't always talk to each other
until very late in the process. they each have different missions, and each
can complete his mission without ever talking to the other until the very
last day. So, the lender will send out a GFE with his fees, but not the
escrow fees. And escrow will send out their without lender fees. In the end,
you should get a GFE that combines the accurate numbers of each. For
example, the lender might send out a GFE where they estimate Escrow Fees at
$750, but when the loan is done, escrow tells them that the actual fees are
$1500. This is a big change, but the lender won't know escrow fees on the
first day when they have to generate the GFE. Since they will not know the
Escrow Fee, they might simply leave it off, but since it is an Estimate,
they should include their best guess. If the lender leaves Escrow Fees off,
then the final HUD-1 will be significantly different than the GFE. If you
got a GFE from both escrow and from your lender, then you can compare the
figures that each is actually responsible for on the first one with the
figures on the final one.

This problem frequently comes up when the purchase is for a used home, the
lender and escrow agent may not have ever done business together, and each
has a different area of responsibility. The New Home sales transaction is
often times done through the builder and his selected lender and escrow
agent, and when this happens, everybody knows everybody elses
responsibilities and fees, and the GFE is pretty close on the first day and
on the last.






"ap" <> wrote in message
news:
>I think I alrealdy know the answer, but I want to check anyways.
>
> I'm closing on a house tomorrow in MA and just got the HUD-1 from the
> bank. Looking at the fees, I see that most of them are higher than
> what was quoted to me on the Good Faith Estimate. In total by about
> 33%. This doesn't include added monies such as taxes, insurance, and
> interest. I already know about those and have no problem with them.
>
> My question is can I do anything about it? At this point, I already
> have 5% down and have made arrangements so backing out or looking for
> another bank is not really an option.
>
> Going forward, how can I avoid this from happening again? I'll be
> financing again within a couple of months.
>
> I appreciate any advice.
> Thanks.
>

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

"Don" <> wrote in message
news:6rX_e.195023$
> "Daniel Ganek" <> wrote in message
> news:dhh6cc$ml3$
>
>> In any case stand your ground. Everyone involved wants to close ASAP; the
>> lawyer can update and print out a new HUD-1 form in just a few minutes.
>>
>> If he doesn't, close and then complain loudly to the bank.
>
> Is it possible to delay closing without canceling the deal? For example,
> say you need another week or two to finish the details and scrape up your
> down payment, or some such. There is a lot of flu going around, so maybe
> you could get a delay for medical reasons. Just some thoughts. Indeed
> everyone wants to close ASAP, and a delay might get their attention and
> induce them to look over the fees more carefully. Was your offer
> conditional on inspection? You probably have signed off already, but if
> you didn't you could hint that maybe you are not satisfied with the
> results of the inspection.
>

You can delay signing, but once you sign, you can not delay Closing.

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

In article <>,
"ap" <> wrote:

> I'm closing on a house tomorrow in MA and just got the HUD-1 from the
> bank. Looking at the fees, I see that most of them are higher than
> what was quoted to me on the Good Faith Estimate. In total by about
> 33%. This doesn't include added monies such as taxes, insurance, and
> interest. I already know about those and have no problem with them.

It is probably too late for you, but savvy buyers shop several
closing companies for the best closing fees. You often get
discounts if a closing company knows you are shopping. You
can also negotiate out some of the junk fees. But when your
back is up against the wall, the sharks smell blood. That is
one of the ways that first time buyers get screwed, and get
screwed badly.

-john-

--
============================================================ ==========
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications
============================================================ ==========

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> A serious problem with GFEs, specifically as to how they relate to a
> purchase, is that the loan officer creates one, and the selling agent
> creates one -- the selling agent creates his through Escrow.
>
> The problem is that the lender and escrow don't always talk to each
> other until very late in the process. they each have different missions,
> and each can complete his mission without ever talking to the other
> until the very last day. So, the lender will send out a GFE with his
> fees, but not the escrow fees. And escrow will send out their without
> lender fees. In the end, you should get a GFE that combines the accurate
> numbers of each. For example, the lender might send out a GFE where they
> estimate Escrow Fees at $750, but when the loan is done, escrow tells
> them that the actual fees are $1500. This is a big change, but the
> lender won't know escrow fees on the first day when they have to
> generate the GFE. Since they will not know the Escrow Fee, they might
> simply leave it off, but since it is an Estimate, they should include
> their best guess. If the lender leaves Escrow Fees off, then the final
> HUD-1 will be significantly different than the GFE. If you got a GFE
> from both escrow and from your lender, then you can compare the figures
> that each is actually responsible for on the first one with the figures
> on the final one.
>
> This problem frequently comes up when the purchase is for a used home,
> the lender and escrow agent may not have ever done business together,
> and each has a different area of responsibility. The New Home sales
> transaction is often times done through the builder and his selected
> lender and escrow agent, and when this happens, everybody knows
> everybody elses responsibilities and fees, and the GFE is pretty close
> on the first day and on the last.
>
>

That's not how it works in Mass. When there's a mortgage involved the bank's
lawyer takes care of everything assocoated with closing and the mortgage.
(Unless the buyer hires his own lawyer) There's is no such thing as "escrow"
in Mass. The lawyer and bank have worked together many times.

In the OP case I suspect that there was a mistake and the lawyer will fix it.
Since the lawyer works for the bank he's not going to want to get the bank
in trouble.

/dan

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

Several things you should remember:

1. Everything is negotiable.
2. You do not have to enter into the contract.

When I bought my house, there were alot of junk fees tacked on at the end.
Everyone figures a home buyer will not walk for a couple hundred dollars in
fees. What I did was: say no to the fees, and threaten to walk away from
deal. You would be surprised how powerful the word "no" is. There were
junk fees from the lender, and from the escrow company. We were on the cell
phone at the closing, and got alot of junk fees waived by the lender, same
with the escrow company. Be prepared to walk, be tough, negotiate. I even
had the seller volunteering to pay some fees.

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

"Joshua Heard" <> wrote in message
news:fCb%e.531$
> Several things you should remember:
>
> 1. Everything is negotiable.
> 2. You do not have to enter into the contract.
>
> When I bought my house, there were alot of junk fees tacked on at the end.
> Everyone figures a home buyer will not walk for a couple hundred dollars
> in fees. What I did was: say no to the fees, and threaten to walk away
> from deal. You would be surprised how powerful the word "no" is. There
> were junk fees from the lender, and from the escrow company. We were on
> the cell phone at the closing, and got alot of junk fees waived by the
> lender, same with the escrow company. Be prepared to walk, be tough,
> negotiate. I even had the seller volunteering to pay some fees.

You are so right. The buyer has more power than often realized. I have heard
of a real estate agent personally paying fees and taking less commission to
save a deal. I think a lot of people also underestimate the extent to which
negotiation with lenders is possible. For example, I found that various
fees, including higher interest rates on rental property that is not
owner-occupied, will disappear if you threaten to go elsewhere.

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

"Joshua Heard" <> wrote
> When I bought my house, there were alot of junk fees tacked on at the end.
> Everyone figures a home buyer will not walk for a couple hundred dollars
in
> fees. What I did was: say no to the fees, and threaten to walk away from
> deal.

What happens to the earnest money if you walk?

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Quick Legal question about home buying Good Faith Estimates

On 2-Oct-2005, "Kitep" <> wrote:

> "Joshua Heard" <> wrote
> > When I bought my house, there were alot of junk fees tacked on at the
> > end.
> > Everyone figures a home buyer will not walk for a couple hundred dollars
> in
> > fees. What I did was: say no to the fees, and threaten to walk away
> > from
> > deal.
>
> What happens to the earnest money if you walk?

And how much is the earnest money?

--
Warmest regards,

Steve Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht. =^..^=