The proposal seems to be that I run the mimf2006 competition. If you don't
agree, or even if you do, then say so now.
Otherwise it will be run on much the same lines as the last few competitions
and I will restate the rules, such few as there are.
Please let me know who wants to be in it and your preferred portfolio names.
I have Kaspar and myself so far and we both had two portfolios each for
2005.
David
Go for it. Should we exclude individual stocks?
"David Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
news:dp0kg7$1cv$
> The proposal seems to be that I run the mimf2006 competition. If you don't
> agree, or even if you do, then say so now.
>
> Otherwise it will be run on much the same lines as the last few
> competitions and I will restate the rules, such few as there are.
>
> Please let me know who wants to be in it and your preferred portfolio
> names. I have Kaspar and myself so far and we both had two portfolios each
> for 2005.
>
> David
>
David Wilkinson wrote:
> The proposal seems to be that I run the mimf2006 competition. If you don't
> agree, or even if you do, then say so now.
>
> Otherwise it will be run on much the same lines as the last few competitions
> and I will restate the rules, such few as there are.
>
> Please let me know who wants to be in it and your preferred portfolio names.
I'll play. My portfolio name should be "StevenL".
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
"NoEd" <> wrote in message
news:
> Go for it. Should we exclude individual stocks?
>
If you do that it becomes a US only event and I can't be in it. The
intention is that all portfolios must be on Finance.Yahoo with values
updated by them. This rules out all UK mutual funds. Further, I am not
legally able to buy US mutual funds, being a UK citizen living in the UK.
This means the only thing I can invest in on Finance.Yahoo is UK stocks.
Some other competitors also use stocks.
However, if the concensus is to ban stocks then I am out of the competition
and will not want to run it. I have been in it the last three years though,
without any problems until I showed signs of winning :-)
I would think many competitors in real life own a mix of funds and stocks so
it is slightly more realistic to include stocks as an option. To ban them
would seem be to say that it is easier to make money using stocks than funds
which leads one to question why you buy mutual funds. Personally, I don't
think it is easier with stocks and almost all my real investments are in
funds. They should be able to hold their own against stocks in the
competition so what is there to lose?
What do others think?
David
>
>
> "David Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
> news:dp0kg7$1cv$
>> The proposal seems to be that I run the mimf2006 competition. If you
>> don't agree, or even if you do, then say so now.
>>
>> Otherwise it will be run on much the same lines as the last few
>> competitions and I will restate the rules, such few as there are.
>>
>> Please let me know who wants to be in it and your preferred portfolio
>> names. I have Kaspar and myself so far and we both had two portfolios
>> each for 2005.
>>
>> David
>>
>
>
David Wilkinson wrote:
> The proposal seems to be that I run the mimf2006 competition. If you don't
> agree, or even if you do, then say so now.
>
> Otherwise it will be run on much the same lines as the last few competitions
> and I will restate the rules, such few as there are.
>
> Please let me know who wants to be in it and your preferred portfolio names.
> I have Kaspar and myself so far and we both had two portfolios each for
> 2005.
I will again play with two portfolios. One would be Kaspa_ETF using
the same
strategy I used last year (essentially based on the assumption that
momentum
persists for couple of months at least) and want to see if the success
continues.
The second one would be Kaspa_stocks using 'yet another mechanical'
strategy.
None of the mechanical stock strategies I tried in the past years
worked satisfactoriy
for me, but the quest continues.
Kaspa
Good rejoinder. Stocks should be allowed.
"David Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
news:dp17l0$ouh$
>
> "NoEd" <> wrote in message
> news:
>> Go for it. Should we exclude individual stocks?
>>
> If you do that it becomes a US only event and I can't be in it. The
> intention is that all portfolios must be on Finance.Yahoo with values
> updated by them. This rules out all UK mutual funds. Further, I am not
> legally able to buy US mutual funds, being a UK citizen living in the UK.
> This means the only thing I can invest in on Finance.Yahoo is UK stocks.
> Some other competitors also use stocks.
>
> However, if the concensus is to ban stocks then I am out of the
> competition
> and will not want to run it. I have been in it the last three years
> though,
> without any problems until I showed signs of winning :-)
>
> I would think many competitors in real life own a mix of funds and stocks
> so
> it is slightly more realistic to include stocks as an option. To ban them
> would seem be to say that it is easier to make money using stocks than
> funds
> which leads one to question why you buy mutual funds. Personally, I don't
> think it is easier with stocks and almost all my real investments are in
> funds. They should be able to hold their own against stocks in the
> competition so what is there to lose?
>
> What do others think?
>
> David
>
>>
>>
>> "David Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
>> news:dp0kg7$1cv$
>>> The proposal seems to be that I run the mimf2006 competition. If you
>>> don't agree, or even if you do, then say so now.
>>>
>>> Otherwise it will be run on much the same lines as the last few
>>> competitions and I will restate the rules, such few as there are.
>>>
>>> Please let me know who wants to be in it and your preferred portfolio
>>> names. I have Kaspar and myself so far and we both had two portfolios
>>> each for 2005.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
"NoEd" <> wrote
> Good rejoinder. Stocks should be allowed.
But unless you've changed your ways, you shouldn't be.
Maybe you'll get tossed out again.
> "David Wilkinson" <>
wrote
> > I would think many competitors in real life own a mix of
funds and stocks
> > so
> > it is slightly more realistic to include stocks as an
option. To ban them
> > would seem be to say that it is easier to make money
using stocks than
> > funds
> > which leads one to question why you buy mutual funds.
It's easier to lose money using stocks, as well. That's why
mutual funds were created. That's why this newsgroup exists.
> > Personally, I don't
> > think it is easier with stocks and almost all my real
investments are in
> > funds. They should be able to hold their own against
stocks in the
> > competition so what is there to lose?
It /is/ a mutual fund newsgroup. As a statistical reality,
for a short-term contest such as this, the likelihood is
greater that some, solo stock pick will always beat any
mutual fund pick. From this it follows that stocks of any
combination will tend to be the high gainers (as well as
high decliners), and so fill out the tails of the normal
distribution of annual returns, simply because mutual funds,
by virtue of their diversity, tend to be less volatile.
What's lost is gleaning information about mutual fund
trading (including timing) as a mechanism for long term
profits at lower risk.
But this is not a democracy. So for me, put $100k, with odds
to double my Monopoly money, on David quitting running the
contest by August 1, or doing enough of a bumbling job that
people challenge entries or have no faith that they are
being monitored.
Maybe this will be incentive for him to take seriously the
burden of running this contest.
David Wilkinson wrote:
> "NoEd" <> wrote in message
> news:
>
>>Go for it. Should we exclude individual stocks?
>>
>
> If you do that it becomes a US only event and I can't be in it. The
> intention is that all portfolios must be on Finance.Yahoo with values
> updated by them. This rules out all UK mutual funds. Further, I am not
> legally able to buy US mutual funds, being a UK citizen living in the UK.
> This means the only thing I can invest in on Finance.Yahoo is UK stocks.
> Some other competitors also use stocks.
>
> However, if the concensus is to ban stocks then I am out of the competition
> and will not want to run it. I have been in it the last three years though,
> without any problems until I showed signs of winning :-)
>
> I would think many competitors in real life own a mix of funds and stocks so
> it is slightly more realistic to include stocks as an option.
I agree with you.
Because I definitely want to be able to purchase closed-end funds, which
are traded like stocks anyway.
To allow closed-end funds but disallow individual stocks strikes me as
too arbitrary.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Tessy, you aren't going to play. Stop being a bitching busybody and mind
your own business.
Why don't you run ytour own contest and make your own rules.
"Tess Millay" <> wrote in message
news:hEWsf.1822$M%
>> "David Wilkinson" <>
> wrote
>
> It /is/ a mutual fund newsgroup. As a statistical reality,
> for a short-term contest such as this, the likelihood is
> greater that some, solo stock pick will always beat any
> mutual fund pick. From this it follows that stocks of any
> combination will tend to be the high gainers (as well as
> high decliners), and so fill out the tails of the normal
> distribution of annual returns, simply because mutual funds,
> by virtue of their diversity, tend to be less volatile.
>
> What's lost is gleaning information about mutual fund
> trading (including timing) as a mechanism for long term
> profits at lower risk.
>
> But this is not a democracy. So for me, put $100k, with odds
> to double my Monopoly money, on David quitting running the
> contest by August 1, or doing enough of a bumbling job that
> people challenge entries or have no faith that they are
> being monitored.
>
> Maybe this will be incentive for him to take seriously the
> burden of running this contest.
>
>
As usual Elle, you seem to be in a minority of one. The other genuine
competitors who have replied all support allowing stocks. As a persistent
non-starter your views are hardly relevant.
What makes you think I don't take it seriously? I have gone through three
years of competitions so far including running three portfolios this year. I
have never dropped out. What have you done apart from whinge on the
sidelines?
okay, count me in again. just run the Sam portfolio--Sam's Dog
proved to take too much time.
I'll just be using my same portfolio as 2005. we'll see how buy
'n hold fares in the long term (two years does not a long term
make, but it's twice as long as one year).
David, is this the same contest that I already told you, mac, and Ed
via email that I'm in? If so, I'm just posting publicly that I'm in.
If it's another contest, then I'll pass. I'm in a couple others
already, and that would be enough for me.
Assuming that your answer is yea, then you can use one portfolio name
of Mo or Maurice for me. Thanks for running the contest.
Mo
Mo. No, this is the mimf contest, which has run for the last three years, at
least, with deals and results published in the misc-invest-mutual-fund News
Group.
The one Ed runs, and that you and I and others are in, is a different one.
It is only conducted by e-mails and the results are only known to
participants.
I am running the mimf one in 2006 and inviting entries. I will assume that
is a "no" from you, but you are welcome to change your mind.
David
"Maurice" <> wrote in message
news:
> David, is this the same contest that I already told you, mac, and Ed
> via email that I'm in? If so, I'm just posting publicly that I'm in.
> If it's another contest, then I'll pass. I'm in a couple others
> already, and that would be enough for me.
>
> Assuming that your answer is yea, then you can use one portfolio name
> of Mo or Maurice for me. Thanks for running the contest.
>
> Mo
>
I'm in as tksung and I'll be using scottrade as my broker.
David, you may want to post the rules for those who are new. The one
for 2005 was in
Thanks for the earlier rules, TK. I will combine them with my set posted
earlier.
Entrants so far are David(2), Kaspar(2), NoEd, StevenL, Sam and TK.
Any more want to come in?
David
"TK Sung" <> wrote in message
news:
> I'm in as tksung and I'll be using scottrade as my broker.
>
> David, you may want to post the rules for those who are new. The one
> for 2005 was in
>
>
I'd like to join too. My portfolio will be mkusuma
thanks, David.
David,
You can send the password at kaspakhine at yahoo dot com.
Convert the letters to symbols. Thanks.
Kaspa
I'm in if we can do it the same as last time: TK entered my initial
portfolios and then it was forgotten. One of my portfolios is just a
single fund (Vanguard REIT funds). For the other portfolio, I'd like
to use the same funds as last year with the current distributions of
the different funds at the end of the 2005 contest.
--Ram
David Wilkinson <> wrote:
> Thanks for the earlier rules, TK. I will combine them with my set posted
> earlier.
> Entrants so far are David(2), Kaspar(2), NoEd, StevenL, Sam and TK.
> Any more want to come in?
> David
> "TK Sung" <> wrote in message
> news:
>> I'm in as tksung and I'll be using scottrade as my broker.
>>
>> David, you may want to post the rules for those who are new. The one
>> for 2005 was in
>>
>>
1. For this contest (Kaspa_ETF portfolio)
Buy the following (equal $ amounts) at next market open.
EWO
EWW
EWY
EWZ
XLE
My broker is Scottrade and no dividends are reinvested
automatically.
2 . I have decided to change the other portfolio also as a funds
portfolio,
but I would be trying a timing scheme with Profunds (got inspired
by
Arne's results :-)) . I will use Profunds directly without using
a broker.
David, please use the name Kaspa_timing for this portfolio.
Hopefully,
you still have time for doing this. Thanks.
For this portfolio, Buy USPIX at next market close with all the
money.
Kaspa
Please allow me to join as "NewYorker". Email: newyorker777 at hotmail.com
Thanks.
NY
"David Wilkinson"
> The proposal seems to be that I run the mimf2006 competition. If you don't
> agree, or even if you do, then say so now.
>
> Otherwise it will be run on much the same lines as the last few
competitions
> and I will restate the rules, such few as there are.
>
> Please let me know who wants to be in it and your preferred portfolio
names.
> I have Kaspar and myself so far and we both had two portfolios each for
> 2005.
>
> David
Here Are My Investments.
VBIIX 10,000
VIMSX 25,000
VFINX 25,000
VGENX 15,000
VISVX 15,000
VPACX 10,000
I will use Vanguard. I will not trade anytime during the year.
"David Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
news:dp40om$qom$
> Thanks for the earlier rules, TK. I will combine them with my set posted
> earlier.
>
> Entrants so far are David(2), Kaspar(2), NoEd, StevenL, Sam and TK.
>
> Any more want to come in?
>
> David
>
> "TK Sung" <> wrote in message
> news:
>> I'm in as tksung and I'll be using scottrade as my broker.
>>
>> David, you may want to post the rules for those who are new. The one
>> for 2005 was in
>>
>>
>
>
"NoEd" <> wrote
> Here Are My Investments.
>
> VBIIX 10,000
> VIMSX 25,000
> VFINX 25,000
> VGENX 15,000
> VISVX 15,000
> VPACX 10,000
>
>
> I will use Vanguard. I will not trade anytime during the
year.
Commendable, insofar as maintaining the focus of this group
on mutual funds.
Though Vanguard is supposed to introduce its new dividend
achievers ETF and mutual fund in January, and it might be
interesting to... oh never mind. I am not entering, but I
will say that my own portfolio had a return of about 8% for
the year. Nowhere near Sam's real life effort.
"NoEd" <> wrote in message
news:
> Here Are My Investments.
>
> VBIIX 10,000
> VIMSX 25,000
> VFINX 25,000
> VGENX 15,000
> VISVX 15,000
> VPACX 10,000
>
>
> I will use Vanguard. I will not trade anytime during the year.
Make sure you enter them into your portfolio and use the closing prices for
Tuesday, Jan. 3.
If you don't know how just ask any 10 year old in your area to help you.
See, I'm trying to help you not get booted again this year.
"Tess Millay" <> wrote
> Commendable, insofar as maintaining the focus of this group
> on mutual funds.
Look's like you got the witch's blessing, NoEd.
Too bad she won't play instead of whining all of the time.
In article
<CNAtf.2773$M%>,
"Tess Millay" <> wrote:
> I am not entering, but I
> will say that my own portfolio had a return of about 8% for
> the year. Nowhere near Sam's real life effort.
I'd like to take full credit for the nice return, but my strategy
is simply this:
there are a certain number of funds available to me in my 401(k)
account. I am limited to this universe of funds to invest for
retirement.
of these funds, a certain number are classified as "greater risk"
by the fund companies that offer them as well as Morningstar.
These happen to be mid-cap funds, for the most part.
Since I am relatively young and have many years to retirement, I
am simply following what the buy-n-hold books tell you to do, to
invest in these QUALITY higher-risk funds while young. In ten
years or so, I will begin moving the money that's accrued into
lower-risk vehicles.
So it's all about risk for me, at this point.
I also expect down years to come. Over the long term I hope to
return 11% before inflation.
Also, if a particular fund starts to perform poorly over, say,
three to four years, I will consider abandoning it.
But AT LEAST I'm in. You're sitting on the sidelines with hand in your
pocket playing a game.
"Ed" <> wrote in message
news:
>
> "NoEd" <> wrote in message
> news:
>> Here Are My Investments.
>>
>> VBIIX 10,000
>> VIMSX 25,000
>> VFINX 25,000
>> VGENX 15,000
>> VISVX 15,000
>> VPACX 10,000
>>
>>
>> I will use Vanguard. I will not trade anytime during the year.
>
> Make sure you enter them into your portfolio and use the closing prices
> for Tuesday, Jan. 3.
> If you don't know how just ask any 10 year old in your area to help you.
>
> See, I'm trying to help you not get booted again this year.
>
"sam grey" <> wrote
> "Tess Millay" <> wrote:
> > I am not entering, but I
> > will say that my own portfolio had a return of about 8%
for
> > the year. Nowhere near Sam's real life effort.
>
> I'd like to take full credit for the nice return, but my
strategy
> is simply this:
>
> there are a certain number of funds available to me in my
401(k)
> account. I am limited to this universe of funds to invest
for
> retirement.
>
> of these funds, a certain number are classified as
"greater risk"
> by the fund companies that offer them as well as
Morningstar.
> These happen to be mid-cap funds, for the most part.
>
> Since I am relatively young and have many years to
retirement, I
> am simply following what the buy-n-hold books tell you to
do, to
> invest in these QUALITY higher-risk funds while young. In
ten
> years or so, I will begin moving the money that's accrued
into
> lower-risk vehicles.
I appreciate the explanation, especially that mid caps had a
fair amount to do with your 2005 success. I had actually
thought you had attempted a bit of timing!
I am getting away from mutual funds. I am not so sure I'll
ever even bother with ETFs. But my strategy has changed a
lot in a few years. Mostly value (hence large cap) stocks.
Big emphasis on dividend achievement. Doing a bit of timing,
but with a basis in strong company fundamentals and so as to
take advantage of kinks--unjustified (by the fundamentals)
mass hysteria over a legal decision, say.
Mid caps are too risky for me right now, like what you're
saying, except maybe in my IRA.
> So it's all about risk for me, at this point.
>
> I also expect down years to come. Over the long term I
hope to
> return 11% before inflation.
I think in terms of having a million dollars by X date more
often these days.
> Also, if a particular fund starts to perform poorly over,
say,
> three to four years, I will consider abandoning it.
Not bit by the index fund bug? Or aren't these really
available in your 401k plan?
"NoEd" <> wrote in message
news:
> But AT LEAST I'm in. You're sitting on the sidelines with hand in your
> pocket playing a game.
You are not in until you fill up your portfolio on Tuesday, if you can
figure out how.
You are also not in our contest and you are not invited.
"Tess Millay" <> wrote
> I think in terms of having a million dollars by X date more
> often these days.
You mean you don't yet?
With all of your knowledge and wisdom?
With your own web page dedicated to investing?
I don't believe it.
My cat likes your sand box.
"Ed" <> wrote in message
news:
>
> "NoEd" <> wrote in message
> news:
>> But AT LEAST I'm in. You're sitting on the sidelines with hand in your
>> pocket playing a game.
>
> You are not in until you fill up your portfolio on Tuesday, if you can
> figure out how.
> You are also not in our contest and you are not invited.
>
"NoEd" <> wrote
> My cat likes your sand box.
Bring your cat over, I'll put a BB in his ass.
In article <DABtf.417$>,
"Tess Millay" <> wrote:
> Not bit by the index fund bug? Or aren't these really
> available in your 401k plan?
They are available, indeed, and I have nothing against index
funds generally speaking. IIRC, however, they generally are not
considered higher-risk, so that's why I'm not in them at this
stage of the game. I'm looking for slightly higher risk at the
moment in the hope of better returns over the next decade or so.
So if I get 11% over the long term, I'm happy, but I hope for a
better return overall.
"sam grey" <> wrote
> They are available, indeed, and I have nothing against index
> funds generally speaking. IIRC, however, they generally are not
> considered higher-risk,
Say what?
I suggest that you check out ETF's, they're index funds.
PowerShares Dynamic Biotechnology & Genome Portfolio
PowerShares Dynamic Semiconductors Portfolio
Vanguard Information Technology VIPERs
PowerShares Lux Nanotech Portfolio
streetTRACKS Morgan Stanley Technology ETF
iShares Nasdaq Biotechnology
iShares MSCI Emerging Markets
iShares MSCI Malaysia Index Fund
iShares S&P Latin America 40
iShares FTSE/Xinhua China 25 Index Fund
PowerShares Zacks Micro Cap Portfolio
PowerShares Golden Dragon Halter USX China Portfolio
streetTRACKS Gold Shares
iShares S&P Global Information Technology Sector
NoEd wrote:
>
> Here Are My Investments.
>
> VBIIX 10,000
> VIMSX 25,000
> VFINX 25,000
> VGENX 15,000
> VISVX 15,000
> VPACX 10,000
>
> I will use Vanguard. I will not trade anytime during the year.
Add my name to the contest list (msf for portfolio). Like NoEd, I will
use a pure fund portfolio; unlike his portfolio, mine will be 100%
actively managed stocks. Though like him, I will buy and hold for the
entire year.
The portfolio below is a fair approximation of my actual holdings, with
a few differences:
1) There are no MMFs (I assume the goal is to demonstrate performance)
2) I ignore tax consequences - thus I have replaced a muni fund with a
similar grade/duration taxable fund
3) There is no fund here that I own in real life (deliberately)
According to M* X-ray, this is a fair approximation of my real portfolio
in several dimensions, though this contest portfolio is a bit more
conservative in many respects: value/growth, large/small,
domestic/foreign, developed/emerging, slow growth/aggressive growth,
etc.
A little difficult to match a portfolio that closely - the exercise
gives one a better appreciation of sampling techniques used by index
managers for portfolio construction.
Since this is a buy-and-hold portfolio, I can purchase the funds
directly from the fund families (or via Fidelity, for convenience, if
the funds are NTF there):
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
Vanguard Primecap Core (Large Cap Blend) - 37,000 - via Vanguard
American Century Mid Cap Value Investor Cl (MCV) - 20,000 via Fidelity
Pennsylvania Mutual (Sm Cap Blend) - 13,000 - via Royce Funds
Mutual Discovery Z (World - LC Blend) - 13,000 - via Franklin/Templeton
TRP Int'l Discovery (Foreign SCG) - 5,000 - via T. Rowe Price
Fidelity Strategic Inc. (Multisector Bond) - 5,000 - via Fidelity
D&C Income (Intermed. Bond) - 4,000 - via D&C
Westcore Bond (Midgrade Bond) - 3,000 - via Fidelity
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
In a "real" contest, one would drop the bond funds also, but this will
give a better reflection of my investments. It also serves to test
whether I can find satisfactory replacements for existing funds. (Of
course, no one will believe me if at the end of the year it turns out
that my real portfolio did better :-)
Since I am a grandfathered shareholder in Mutual Series, Mutual
Discovery Z shares are open to me.
Several of the funds are gambles, though IMHO none more so than Mutual
Discovery, because of the inability of the whole family to hold
managers. Similarly, the Fidelity fund is somewhat of a gamble, though
Eigen, who recently left, was more responsible for the relative
weighting of the different fund components than for the issue selection,
so I am less concerned here. Vanguard Primecap Core and American
Century Mid Cap Value are new funds, but both with fine pedigrees and
experienced management.
The use of funds is pretty basic:
Domestic - large, mid, small
Foreign - large (using a world fund), small
Bonds - multisector (foreign exposure, junk), domestic borderline junk,
and domestic high grade/short.
This won't win any contests (literally), but it should do pretty well,
year in, year out.
I'll await login/passwd info.
--
Mark Freeland
Mark, you should forward this to
David is organizing the contest, not NoEd. I can't imagine why David
wouldn't see this post but on the off chance that he doesn't.
"Mark Freeland" <> wrote
> Add my name to the contest list (msf for portfolio). Like NoEd, I will
> use a pure fund portfolio; unlike his portfolio, mine will be 100%
> actively managed stocks. Though like him, I will buy and hold for the
> entire year.
>
> The portfolio below is a fair approximation of my actual holdings, with
> a few differences:
> 1) There are no MMFs (I assume the goal is to demonstrate performance)
> 2) I ignore tax consequences - thus I have replaced a muni fund with a
> similar grade/duration taxable fund
> 3) There is no fund here that I own in real life (deliberately)
>
> According to M* X-ray, this is a fair approximation of my real portfolio
> in several dimensions, though this contest portfolio is a bit more
> conservative in many respects: value/growth, large/small,
> domestic/foreign, developed/emerging, slow growth/aggressive growth,
> etc.
>
> A little difficult to match a portfolio that closely - the exercise
> gives one a better appreciation of sampling techniques used by index
> managers for portfolio construction.
>
> Since this is a buy-and-hold portfolio, I can purchase the funds
> directly from the fund families (or via Fidelity, for convenience, if
> the funds are NTF there):
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
> Vanguard Primecap Core (Large Cap Blend) - 37,000 - via Vanguard
> American Century Mid Cap Value Investor Cl (MCV) - 20,000 via Fidelity
> Pennsylvania Mutual (Sm Cap Blend) - 13,000 - via Royce Funds
> Mutual Discovery Z (World - LC Blend) - 13,000 - via Franklin/Templeton
> TRP Int'l Discovery (Foreign SCG) - 5,000 - via T. Rowe Price
> Fidelity Strategic Inc. (Multisector Bond) - 5,000 - via Fidelity
> D&C Income (Intermed. Bond) - 4,000 - via D&C
> Westcore Bond (Midgrade Bond) - 3,000 - via Fidelity
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
>
> In a "real" contest, one would drop the bond funds also, but this will
> give a better reflection of my investments. It also serves to test
> whether I can find satisfactory replacements for existing funds. (Of
> course, no one will believe me if at the end of the year it turns out
> that my real portfolio did better :-)
>
> Since I am a grandfathered shareholder in Mutual Series, Mutual
> Discovery Z shares are open to me.
>
> Several of the funds are gambles, though IMHO none more so than Mutual
> Discovery, because of the inability of the whole family to hold
> managers. Similarly, the Fidelity fund is somewhat of a gamble, though
> Eigen, who recently left, was more responsible for the relative
> weighting of the different fund components than for the issue selection,
> so I am less concerned here. Vanguard Primecap Core and American
> Century Mid Cap Value are new funds, but both with fine pedigrees and
> experienced management.
>
> The use of funds is pretty basic:
> Domestic - large, mid, small
> Foreign - large (using a world fund), small
> Bonds - multisector (foreign exposure, junk), domestic borderline junk,
> and domestic high grade/short.
>
> This won't win any contests (literally), but it should do pretty well,
> year in, year out.
>
> I'll await login/passwd info.
>
> --
> Mark Freeland
>
Thanks Ed. I saw it and responded.
David
"Ed" <> wrote in message
news:
> Mark, you should forward this to
> David is organizing the contest, not NoEd. I can't imagine why David
> wouldn't see this post but on the off chance that he doesn't.
>
>
>
> "Mark Freeland" <> wrote
>
>> Add my name to the contest list (msf for portfolio). Like NoEd, I will
>> use a pure fund portfolio; unlike his portfolio, mine will be 100%
>> actively managed stocks. Though like him, I will buy and hold for the
>> entire year.
>>
>> The portfolio below is a fair approximation of my actual holdings, with
>> a few differences:
>> 1) There are no MMFs (I assume the goal is to demonstrate performance)
>> 2) I ignore tax consequences - thus I have replaced a muni fund with a
>> similar grade/duration taxable fund
>> 3) There is no fund here that I own in real life (deliberately)
>>
>> According to M* X-ray, this is a fair approximation of my real portfolio
>> in several dimensions, though this contest portfolio is a bit more
>> conservative in many respects: value/growth, large/small,
>> domestic/foreign, developed/emerging, slow growth/aggressive growth,
>> etc.
>>
>> A little difficult to match a portfolio that closely - the exercise
>> gives one a better appreciation of sampling techniques used by index
>> managers for portfolio construction.
>>
>> Since this is a buy-and-hold portfolio, I can purchase the funds
>> directly from the fund families (or via Fidelity, for convenience, if
>> the funds are NTF there):
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
>> Vanguard Primecap Core (Large Cap Blend) - 37,000 - via Vanguard
>> American Century Mid Cap Value Investor Cl (MCV) - 20,000 via Fidelity
>> Pennsylvania Mutual (Sm Cap Blend) - 13,000 - via Royce Funds
>> Mutual Discovery Z (World - LC Blend) - 13,000 - via Franklin/Templeton
>> TRP Int'l Discovery (Foreign SCG) - 5,000 - via T. Rowe Price
>> Fidelity Strategic Inc. (Multisector Bond) - 5,000 - via Fidelity
>> D&C Income (Intermed. Bond) - 4,000 - via D&C
>> Westcore Bond (Midgrade Bond) - 3,000 - via Fidelity
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
>>
>> In a "real" contest, one would drop the bond funds also, but this will
>> give a better reflection of my investments. It also serves to test
>> whether I can find satisfactory replacements for existing funds. (Of
>> course, no one will believe me if at the end of the year it turns out
>> that my real portfolio did better :-)
>>
>> Since I am a grandfathered shareholder in Mutual Series, Mutual
>> Discovery Z shares are open to me.
>>
>> Several of the funds are gambles, though IMHO none more so than Mutual
>> Discovery, because of the inability of the whole family to hold
>> managers. Similarly, the Fidelity fund is somewhat of a gamble, though
>> Eigen, who recently left, was more responsible for the relative
>> weighting of the different fund components than for the issue selection,
>> so I am less concerned here. Vanguard Primecap Core and American
>> Century Mid Cap Value are new funds, but both with fine pedigrees and
>> experienced management.
>>
>> The use of funds is pretty basic:
>> Domestic - large, mid, small
>> Foreign - large (using a world fund), small
>> Bonds - multisector (foreign exposure, junk), domestic borderline junk,
>> and domestic high grade/short.
>>
>> This won't win any contests (literally), but it should do pretty well,
>> year in, year out.
>>
>> I'll await login/passwd info.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Freeland
>>
>
>
David Wilkinson wrote:
>
> Thanks Ed. I saw it and responded.
>
> David
I haven't gotten a response yet - if my address is too convoluted, just
remember that sometimes news gets tangled up in the net, and that the
net comes first (lower case).
--
Mark Freeland
"Mark Freeland" <> wrote in message
news:
> American Century Mid Cap Value Investor Cl (MCV) - 20,000 via Fidelity
This fund is closed to new investors.
Gary C wrote:
>
> "Mark Freeland" <> wrote in message
> news:
>
> > American Century Mid Cap Value Investor Cl (MCV) - 20,000 via Fidelity
>
> This fund is closed to new investors.
>
>
Are you sure? Here's Fidelity's page for that particular fund:
(Fidelity marks closed funds by highlighting the fact in red on top of
the individual fund pages - no marking here, minimum to open is given as
$2,500)
According to the prospectus (follow the prospectus link from the page
you gave):
"AMERICAN CENTURY MONITORS THE SIZE OF SMALL CAP VALUE IN ORDER TO
PRESERVE THE SMALL CAP NATURE OF THE FUND. AT THIS TIME THE FUND IS
CLOSED TO NEW INVESTMENTS, EXCEPT THOSE FROM EXISTING INVESTORS AND
THOSE MADE THROUGH A SMALL NUMBER OF FINANCIAL INTERMEDIARIES SELECTED
BY AMERICAN CENTURY. AMERICAN CENTURY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO FURTHER
RESTRICT PURCHASES OR LOOSEN RESTRICTIONS ON PURCHASES IN THE FUTURE."
But the MidCap Value fund is not similarly closed.
--
Mark Freeland
"Mark Freeland" <> wrote in message
news:
> Gary C wrote:
>>
> Are you sure? Here's Fidelity's page for that particular fund:
>
>
My mistake, Mark.
I was thinking this fund.
Sorry.
This should be fun to watch. Funds are closed, funds that will blacklist you
from frequent trading (could be one buy/sell per year) and those that have
early redemption fees, which can mean a min hold of 2 months to 5 years.....
and is usually 2% of the sale. Wonder how many are going to keep track of
all of it.?
Happy Guy, "Laissez les bons temps roulez"
..
..
"Gary C" <> wrote in message
news:oueuf.45659$q%
>
> "Mark Freeland" <> wrote in message
> news:
>> Gary C wrote:
>>>
>> Are you sure? Here's Fidelity's page for that particular fund:
>>
>>
>
> My mistake, Mark.
> I was thinking this fund.
>
>
>
> Sorry.
>
"happy-guy" <> wrote
> This should be fun to watch. Funds are closed, funds that will blacklist
> you from frequent trading (could be one buy/sell per year) and those that
> have early redemption fees, which can mean a min hold of 2 months to 5
> years..... and is usually 2% of the sale. Wonder how many are going to
> keep track of all of it.?
I know of one guy that will, David. He took it on.
I can't wait to see how many people that are posting their buy and hold
portfolios
will actually go to the contest site and fill up their portfolios with their
picks on Wednesday morning or tomorrow night.
I bet they expect David to do it. NoEd does, he proved that last year and
got booted. When he was finally convinced that he had to do it, he used Dec
31 close prices and refused to fix them. TK bounced his ass right out of the
contest. He got the "dumb ass" penalty.
If I got booted how come he was reporting my portfolio's return? One days
price change made no difference.
"Ed" <> wrote in message
news:
>
> "happy-guy" <> wrote
>
>> This should be fun to watch. Funds are closed, funds that will blacklist
>> you from frequent trading (could be one buy/sell per year) and those that
>> have early redemption fees, which can mean a min hold of 2 months to 5
>> years..... and is usually 2% of the sale. Wonder how many are going to
>> keep track of all of it.?
>
> I know of one guy that will, David. He took it on.
>
> I can't wait to see how many people that are posting their buy and hold
> portfolios
> will actually go to the contest site and fill up their portfolios with
> their picks on Wednesday morning or tomorrow night.
> I bet they expect David to do it. NoEd does, he proved that last year and
> got booted. When he was finally convinced that he had to do it, he used
> Dec 31 close prices and refused to fix them. TK bounced his ass right out
> of the contest. He got the "dumb ass" penalty.
>
>
>
>
>
I wrote:
>
> Since this is a buy-and-hold portfolio, I can purchase the funds
> directly from the fund families (or via Fidelity, for convenience, if
> the funds are NTF there):
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
> Vanguard Primecap Core (Large Cap Blend) - 37,000 - via Vanguard
> American Century Mid Cap Value Investor Cl (MCV) - 20,000 via Fidelity
> Pennsylvania Mutual (Sm Cap Blend) - 13,000 - via Royce Funds
> Mutual Discovery Z (World - LC Blend) - 13,000 - via Franklin/Templeton
> TRP Int'l Discovery (Foreign SCG) - 5,000 - via T. Rowe Price
> Fidelity Strategic Inc. (Multisector Bond) - 5,000 - via Fidelity
> D&C Income (Intermed. Bond) - 4,000 - via D&C
> Westcore Bond (Midgrade Bond) - 3,000 - via Fidelity
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
For the record, I will have the funds reinvest all dividends (yes,
including capital gains dividends :-).
Unless there is a hue and cry, I will not post these transactions prior
to reinvesting (i.e. this post serves as notice that I am placing
"orders" now to reinvest dividends as they become available for
reinvestment). I will record them in a timely manner in the Yahoo
account.
Reinvestment date for open-end end funds (including the funds I'm using)
is typically the ex-date - the date after the record date.
Here are the schedules for two of the bond funds I'm using:
Note that for stocks (not stock funds), the ex-date preceeds the record
date; the pay date is typically some time after the record date, and you
don't have use of the dividends until the pay date.
--
Mark Freeland
You are missing the point, NoEd. You could not buy at 2004 closing prices in
2005. You had to wait until the first fund valuations of 2005 to see the
price you could buy at. Whether the price changes on the first day were
small or not does not matter. It was an invalid transaction and you had to
change it to a valid one using 2005 prices to continue in the contest.
The same rule applies for 2006. You cannot buy at 2005 closing prices. The
US market does not open for about 6 hours and the first 2006 fund valuations
will not be published until some time after that. Several competitors have
declared what they will buy and this is fine as it is equivalent to putting
a buy order into a fund company. When they know what the first 2006 fund
prices were, later today or tomorrow, then they can enter the transactions
with the prices they would have got in real life. Anyone who has already
entered transactions should delete them and wait for the 2006 prices.
Stock or ETF buyers can obviously buy as soon as the market opens. The UK
market has already opened but most funds are not valued until mid-day and
the numbers are not available until some time after that.
David
"NoEd" <> wrote in message
news:
> If I got booted how come he was reporting my portfolio's return? One days
> price change made no difference.
>
>
> "Ed" <> wrote in message
> news:
>>
>> "happy-guy" <> wrote
>>
>>> This should be fun to watch. Funds are closed, funds that will blacklist
>>> you from frequent trading (could be one buy/sell per year) and those
>>> that have early redemption fees, which can mean a min hold of 2 months
>>> to 5 years..... and is usually 2% of the sale. Wonder how many are going
>>> to keep track of all of it.?
>>
>> I know of one guy that will, David. He took it on.
>>
>> I can't wait to see how many people that are posting their buy and hold
>> portfolios
>> will actually go to the contest site and fill up their portfolios with
>> their picks on Wednesday morning or tomorrow night.
>> I bet they expect David to do it. NoEd does, he proved that last year and
>> got booted. When he was finally convinced that he had to do it, he used
>> Dec 31 close prices and refused to fix them. TK bounced his ass right out
>> of the contest. He got the "dumb ass" penalty.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
"NoEd" <> wrote
> If I got booted how come he was reporting my portfolio's return? One days
> price change made no difference.
My mistake, it wasn't TK that booted you, he reluctantly held your hand and
got you to fix your portfolio.
It was Mark that booted you the year before.
As far as one days price change not making a difference, VFINX closed 2004
at $111.64 and it closed the first trading day of 2005 at $110.73. Are you
suggesting that $0.91 = $0.00?
C'mon Kaspa. Scottrade US does not accept orders
like that. Give a number of shares for each ETF.
kaspakhine wrote:
> 1. For this contest (Kaspa_ETF portfolio)
>
> Buy the following (equal $ amounts) at next market open.
> EWO
> EWW
> EWY
> EWZ
> XLE
>
> My broker is Scottrade and no dividends are reinvested
> automatically.
>
> 2 . I have decided to change the other portfolio also as a funds
> portfolio,
> but I would be trying a timing scheme with Profunds (got inspired
> by
> Arne's results :-)) . I will use Profunds directly without using
> a broker.
> David, please use the name Kaspa_timing for this portfolio.
> Hopefully,
> you still have time for doing this. Thanks.
>
> For this portfolio, Buy USPIX at next market close with all the
> money.
>
> Kaspa
>
Wow... out of the wild blue yonder.....
Happy Guy, "Laissez les bons temps roulez"
..
..
"Mark Matzen" <>
I did last year because I didn't have time.
"David Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
news:dpdbtj$gi5$
> You are missing the point, NoEd. You could not buy at 2004 closing prices
> in 2005. You had to wait until the first fund valuations of 2005 to see
> the price you could buy at. Whether the price changes on the first day
> were small or not does not matter. It was an invalid transaction and you
> had to change it to a valid one using 2005 prices to continue in the
> contest.
>
> The same rule applies for 2006. You cannot buy at 2005 closing prices. The
> US market does not open for about 6 hours and the first 2006 fund
> valuations will not be published until some time after that. Several
> competitors have declared what they will buy and this is fine as it is
> equivalent to putting a buy order into a fund company. When they know what
> the first 2006 fund prices were, later today or tomorrow, then they can
> enter the transactions with the prices they would have got in real life.
> Anyone who has already entered transactions should delete them and wait
> for the 2006 prices.
>
> Stock or ETF buyers can obviously buy as soon as the market opens. The UK
> market has already opened but most funds are not valued until mid-day and
> the numbers are not available until some time after that.
>
> David
>
>
> "NoEd" <> wrote in message
> news:
>> If I got booted how come he was reporting my portfolio's return? One
>> days price change made no difference.
>>
>>
>> "Ed" <> wrote in message
>> news:
>>>
>>> "happy-guy" <> wrote
>>>
>>>> This should be fun to watch. Funds are closed, funds that will
>>>> blacklist you from frequent trading (could be one buy/sell per year)
>>>> and those that have early redemption fees, which can mean a min hold of
>>>> 2 months to 5 years..... and is usually 2% of the sale. Wonder how many
>>>> are going to keep track of all of it.?
>>>
>>> I know of one guy that will, David. He took it on.
>>>
>>> I can't wait to see how many people that are posting their buy and hold
>>> portfolios
>>> will actually go to the contest site and fill up their portfolios with
>>> their picks on Wednesday morning or tomorrow night.
>>> I bet they expect David to do it. NoEd does, he proved that last year
>>> and got booted. When he was finally convinced that he had to do it, he
>>> used Dec 31 close prices and refused to fix them. TK bounced his ass
>>> right out of the contest. He got the "dumb ass" penalty.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
"NoEd" <> wrote in message
news:
>I did last year because I didn't have time.
Talk about BS. How long does it take to enter a few securities in your
portfolio?
That's a piss poor excuse if I ever saw one. In fact, you spent much more
time arguing with TK than it would have taken to just do it right in the
first place. It was pretty obvious that you had no idea of what you were
doing. It was funny though, I felt bad for TK.
Mark Freeland wrote:
>It also serves to test
> whether I can find satisfactory replacements for existing funds. (Of
> course, no one will believe me if at the end of the year it turns out
> that my real portfolio did better :-)
I, for one, might not - in the event material I choose from your
selections doesn't meet a fair sense for investment standards I've come
to expect (as well from others, of course). But, that's life, so they
say - win some, lose some.
-The problem drinker is the one who never buys.
Mark Matzen wrote:
> C'mon Kaspa. Scottrade US does not accept orders
> like that. Give a number of shares for each ETF.
>
I agree that Scottrade does not accept orders like that.
I had given the order this way merely for convenience.
In real life, I look at the bid price and order number of shares.
The difference turns out to be rather small
and I take the contest only as a learning exercise.
David, it is your call if you want to accept this order OR consider
this an invalid order and my money will stay in cash. Either way
is acceptable to me. Thank you.
Kaspa
"kaspakhine" <> wrote in message
news:
> Mark Matzen wrote:
>> C'mon Kaspa. Scottrade US does not accept orders
>> like that. Give a number of shares for each ETF.
>>
>
> I agree that Scottrade does not accept orders like that.
> I had given the order this way merely for convenience.
> In real life, I look at the bid price and order number of shares.
> The difference turns out to be rather small
> and I take the contest only as a learning exercise.
>
> David, it is your call if you want to accept this order OR consider
> this an invalid order and my money will stay in cash. Either way
> is acceptable to me. Thank you.
>
> Kaspa
>
Kaspa
Provided you buy them at Tuesday's opening price and work out how many
shares that was for each one then I am happy. That is what your broker would
have done with a buy at market opening order with specified amounts of cash.
Do you have commissions for these to put in? I think you want the "ask"
price rather than the "bid" price, if there is a difference.
David
David Wilkinson wrote:
> Provided you buy them at Tuesday's opening price and work out how many
> shares that was for each one then I am happy. That is what your broker would
> have done with a buy at market opening order with specified amounts of cash.
> Do you have commissions for these to put in? I think you want the "ask"
> price rather than the "bid" price, if there is a difference.
>
> David
Thanks David. I used a commission of $7.20 (For some reason, Scottrade
always
charges me a little more than the advertised $7. The usual range is
$7.10-$7.20.)
I did not have the opening bid and ask information, so I used open
price + $0.10
as the purchase price.
BTW, it was a nice start to the new year with real money too (+2% in a
day
is not bad :-)).
Kaspa
We're back to this again. You are not in the competition because...........
"Ed" <> wrote in message
news:
>
> "NoEd" <> wrote in message
> news:
>>I did last year because I didn't have time.
>
> Talk about BS. How long does it take to enter a few securities in your
> portfolio?
> That's a piss poor excuse if I ever saw one. In fact, you spent much more
> time arguing with TK than it would have taken to just do it right in the
> first place. It was pretty obvious that you had no idea of what you were
> doing. It was funny though, I felt bad for TK.
>
"NoEd" <> wrote in message
news:
> We're back to this again. You are not in the competition
> because...........
I don't know how many times I have to say this to you but once again....I am
in a competition, just not yours. If I were in yours your incompetence
wouldn't be humorous. I prefer to sit back and laugh at you.
"kaspakhine" <> wrote
> Thanks David. I used a commission of $7.20 (For some reason, Scottrade
> always
> charges me a little more than the advertised $7. The usual range is
> $7.10-$7.20.)
Kaspa, Scottrade only charges you "a little more than $7" when you sell.
It's an SEC fee.
They never charge you more than $7 when you buy.
It looks like Gary has used year-end prices for his mutual fund
entries. His portfolio should be valued at $100,000 at the end of Jan
3, but
looks like it is a little more than $102,000.
Kaspa [Enjoying the lead while it lasts, even if it is just for one day
:-)! ]
Yes, I have sent him two e-mails about this and am still waiting for his
response.
David
"Kaspakhine" <> wrote in message
news:
> It looks like Gary has used year-end prices for his mutual fund
> entries. His portfolio should be valued at $100,000 at the end of Jan
> 3, but
> looks like it is a little more than $102,000.
>
> Kaspa [Enjoying the lead while it lasts, even if it is just for one day
> :-)! ]
>