Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx
# Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 18.02.2006 00:17:09 von Phil Schuman
Just wondering why the Yahoo website

(that Quicken links to for charting)

shows the chart using a default LOG scale,

with the optional selection for the Linear scale ?

ie -

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 18.02.2006 15:22:43 von Clark
Don't know for sure, but since the LOG scale reacts quicker to changes,

maybe they feel it gives a better picture of the stock movement.

They do give you a choice of Simple Moving Averages or EMAs, which the basic

charts at E*Trade do not.

Clark

"Phil Schuman" <> wrote in message

news:VPsJf.9011$

> Just wondering why the Yahoo website

> (that Quicken links to for charting)

> shows the chart using a default LOG scale,

> with the optional selection for the Linear scale ?

> ie -

>

>

>

>

>

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 18.02.2006 15:22:43 von Clark
Don't know for sure, but since the LOG scale reacts quicker to changes,

maybe they feel it gives a better picture of the stock movement.

They do give you a choice of Simple Moving Averages or EMAs, which the basic

charts at E*Trade do not.

Clark

"Phil Schuman" <> wrote in message

news:VPsJf.9011$

> Just wondering why the Yahoo website

> (that Quicken links to for charting)

> shows the chart using a default LOG scale,

> with the optional selection for the Linear scale ?

> ie -

>

>

>

>

>

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 18.02.2006 18:00:42 von pb_public
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:17:09 GMT, Phil Schuman wrote:

> Just wondering why the Yahoo website

> (that Quicken links to for charting)

> shows the chart using a default LOG scale,

> with the optional selection for the Linear scale ?

> ie -

I believe the default setting is Yahoo's. I've overridden it,

though, using proxomitron.

p.

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 18.02.2006 18:00:42 von pb_public
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:17:09 GMT, Phil Schuman wrote:

> Just wondering why the Yahoo website

> (that Quicken links to for charting)

> shows the chart using a default LOG scale,

> with the optional selection for the Linear scale ?

> ie -

I believe the default setting is Yahoo's. I've overridden it,

though, using proxomitron.

p.

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 19.02.2006 04:13:18 von kaspakhine
On a log scale, each percentage increase shows as the

same vertical distance. Thus, if a stock price increases from 2 to 4

or 4 to 8, it would look like same vertical increase. On the other

hand,

in a linear scale, it would clearly look different. Thus, if an

investment

is rising at a constant rate of increase per year, it would look like a

straight line if the Y-scale (price) is logarithmic. I like log

scales.

Kaspa

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 19.02.2006 04:13:18 von kaspakhine
On a log scale, each percentage increase shows as the

same vertical distance. Thus, if a stock price increases from 2 to 4

or 4 to 8, it would look like same vertical increase. On the other

hand,

in a linear scale, it would clearly look different. Thus, if an

investment

is rising at a constant rate of increase per year, it would look like a

straight line if the Y-scale (price) is logarithmic. I like log

scales.

Kaspa

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 20.02.2006 19:59:54 von Phil Schuman
"kaspakhine" <> wrote in message

news:

> On a log scale, each percentage increase shows as the

> same vertical distance. Thus, if a stock price increases from 2 to 4

> or 4 to 8, it would look like same vertical increase. On the other

> hand,

> in a linear scale, it would clearly look different. Thus, if an

> investment

> is rising at a constant rate of increase per year, it would look like

a

>

> straight line if the Y-scale (price) is logarithmic. I like log

> scales.

>

> Kaspa

>

interesting emotional response to the graph -

Using log, it's a flat line increase on percentages,

but the linear shows the actual delta increase vs the percentage.

If my 100 shares of a stock went from $2 to $4 - I gained $200

but if it went from $4 to $8 - I gained $400

I think I'd cheer more for the 2nd gainer :)

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 20.02.2006 19:59:54 von Phil Schuman
"kaspakhine" <> wrote in message

news:

> On a log scale, each percentage increase shows as the

> same vertical distance. Thus, if a stock price increases from 2 to 4

> or 4 to 8, it would look like same vertical increase. On the other

> hand,

> in a linear scale, it would clearly look different. Thus, if an

> investment

> is rising at a constant rate of increase per year, it would look like

a

>

> straight line if the Y-scale (price) is logarithmic. I like log

> scales.

>

> Kaspa

>

interesting emotional response to the graph -

Using log, it's a flat line increase on percentages,

but the linear shows the actual delta increase vs the percentage.

If my 100 shares of a stock went from $2 to $4 - I gained $200

but if it went from $4 to $8 - I gained $400

I think I'd cheer more for the 2nd gainer :)

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 20.02.2006 21:33:38 von kaspakhine
It is not how much shares I own, but how much investment I have in a

particular stock/fund. Thus, if I have $5000 to invest, depending on

the

share price, I will get 2500 or 1250 shares (for $2 or $4/share). The

gain

would be same in either case for the same percentage increase in price.

Look at it another way. If you are trying to compare two funds, of NAV

10 and 20. On a log graph comparing the funds on the same page, the

slope would be same, if their NAV is growing at the same percent

increase rate. On a linear graph, you may think that the fund with

NAV of 20 is growing faster (slope would be higher), but if you invest

the same money in both, your portfolio would have increased the same.

Kaspa

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 20.02.2006 21:33:38 von kaspakhine
It is not how much shares I own, but how much investment I have in a

particular stock/fund. Thus, if I have $5000 to invest, depending on

the

share price, I will get 2500 or 1250 shares (for $2 or $4/share). The

gain

would be same in either case for the same percentage increase in price.

Look at it another way. If you are trying to compare two funds, of NAV

10 and 20. On a log graph comparing the funds on the same page, the

slope would be same, if their NAV is growing at the same percent

increase rate. On a linear graph, you may think that the fund with

NAV of 20 is growing faster (slope would be higher), but if you invest

the same money in both, your portfolio would have increased the same.

Kaspa

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 24.02.2006 23:20:41 von Skyes
The real reason is that if a stock price doubles in value,

this doubling shows up in equal vertical amounts on a LOG scale,

but not on a linear scale. Most investors are interested in the

percentage by which their investment increases (or decreases).

So for example if one stock sells for $10 on one day and then rises

to $20 some time later, while another stock sells for $100 and rises

to $200 later, these rises will be shown by equal vertical amounts

on the LOG-scaled plot but not on a linear-scaled plot. This corresponds

to the fact that the investor only is interested in the relative gain

because he/she will buy ten times as many shares of the $10 stock

compared to the $100 stock.

Clark wrote:

> Don't know for sure, but since the LOG scale reacts quicker to changes,

> maybe they feel it gives a better picture of the stock movement.

>

> They do give you a choice of Simple Moving Averages or EMAs, which the basic

> charts at E*Trade do not.

>

> Clark

>

> "Phil Schuman" <> wrote in message

> news:VPsJf.9011$

>

>>Just wondering why the Yahoo website

>>(that Quicken links to for charting)

>>shows the chart using a default LOG scale,

>>with the optional selection for the Linear scale ?

>>ie -

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 24.02.2006 23:20:41 von Skyes
The real reason is that if a stock price doubles in value,

this doubling shows up in equal vertical amounts on a LOG scale,

but not on a linear scale. Most investors are interested in the

percentage by which their investment increases (or decreases).

So for example if one stock sells for $10 on one day and then rises

to $20 some time later, while another stock sells for $100 and rises

to $200 later, these rises will be shown by equal vertical amounts

on the LOG-scaled plot but not on a linear-scaled plot. This corresponds

to the fact that the investor only is interested in the relative gain

because he/she will buy ten times as many shares of the $10 stock

compared to the $100 stock.

Clark wrote:

> Don't know for sure, but since the LOG scale reacts quicker to changes,

> maybe they feel it gives a better picture of the stock movement.

>

> They do give you a choice of Simple Moving Averages or EMAs, which the basic

> charts at E*Trade do not.

>

> Clark

>

> "Phil Schuman" <> wrote in message

> news:VPsJf.9011$

>

>>Just wondering why the Yahoo website

>>(that Quicken links to for charting)

>>shows the chart using a default LOG scale,

>>with the optional selection for the Linear scale ?

>>ie -

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 26.02.2006 00:01:17 von Arthur
I assume you do not expect this ng to have a personal connection to

yahoo's decision making and besides it is what yahoo bought.

Log is like the shit head penny pumpers here who yell SHIT is up 20%

meaning they made 200 on a 1k bet. Won't pay my rent. OTOH, making

20% on a 10k FTO bet will buy the cheese cake.

a

==

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:17:09 GMT, "Phil Schuman"

<> wrote:

>Just wondering why the Yahoo website

>(that Quicken links to for charting)

>shows the chart using a default LOG scale,

>with the optional selection for the Linear scale ?

>ie -

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 26.02.2006 00:01:17 von Arthur
I assume you do not expect this ng to have a personal connection to

yahoo's decision making and besides it is what yahoo bought.

Log is like the shit head penny pumpers here who yell SHIT is up 20%

meaning they made 200 on a 1k bet. Won't pay my rent. OTOH, making

20% on a 10k FTO bet will buy the cheese cake.

a

==

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:17:09 GMT, "Phil Schuman"

<> wrote:

>Just wondering why the Yahoo website

>(that Quicken links to for charting)

>shows the chart using a default LOG scale,

>with the optional selection for the Linear scale ?

>ie -

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 26.02.2006 00:04:37 von Arthur
Again, it is what yahoo bought. Read the bottom of every page.

a

==

On 21 Feb 2006 10:14:07 -0800, "dumbstruck" <>

wrote:

>Speaking of yahoo charting quirks, what is it that often kicks their

>chart into grossly overscaled state? You may be tweaking the

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 26.02.2006 00:04:37 von Arthur
Again, it is what yahoo bought. Read the bottom of every page.

a

==

On 21 Feb 2006 10:14:07 -0800, "dumbstruck" <>

wrote:

>Speaking of yahoo charting quirks, what is it that often kicks their

>chart into grossly overscaled state? You may be tweaking the

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 12.03.2006 03:35:11 von Phil Schuman
"kaspakhine" <> wrote in message

news:

> Look at it another way. If you are trying to compare two funds, of

NAV

> 10 and 20. On a log graph comparing the funds on the same page, the

> slope would be same, if their NAV is growing at the same percent

> increase rate. On a linear graph, you may think that the fund with

> NAV of 20 is growing faster (slope would be higher), but if you invest

> the same money in both, your portfolio would have increased the same.

>

> Kaspa

>

thanks - that helps -

because that is certainly how we tend to compare the past performance..

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 12.03.2006 03:35:11 von Phil Schuman
"kaspakhine" <> wrote in message

news:

> Look at it another way. If you are trying to compare two funds, of

NAV

> 10 and 20. On a log graph comparing the funds on the same page, the

> slope would be same, if their NAV is growing at the same percent

> increase rate. On a linear graph, you may think that the fund with

> NAV of 20 is growing faster (slope would be higher), but if you invest

> the same money in both, your portfolio would have increased the same.

>

> Kaspa

>

thanks - that helps -

because that is certainly how we tend to compare the past performance..

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 12.03.2006 21:31:20 von Flasherly
Phil Schuman wrote:

> interesting emotional response to the graph -

> Using log, it's a flat line increase on percentages,

> but the linear shows the actual delta increase vs the percentage.

>

> If my 100 shares of a stock went from $2 to $4 - I gained $200

> but if it went from $4 to $8 - I gained $400

> I think I'd cheer more for the 2nd gainer :)

Logarithmic is prefered by technical traders on funds and stocks,

linear by commodities and short-selling issues. As logarithmic

distances decrease, assets increase. When something increases a bit, in

addition, to two bits on the dollar, one bit has effectively "moved"

through an initial two-bit asset, to render a 50% profit at an

accumulative of 75cents. Yet, if an addition bit were to move through

a sum of 3 bits, it corresponds to 33% rendition at an accumulitive

total, as one dollar. Whereas a linear graph with the same premise

holds the latter movement identical to the former, as they represent a

sum difference of 25cents at equidistantly plotted juxtipositions. On

the logarithmic scale, noteworthy are where percentages reside for a

key to a short-selling strategist: that 50% is to be depicted for

significantly more than a 33% movement. The delta factor at change

"moves" as a result of valuation, through gamma, as a derivative for

its "speed" theta measures, were time factors effectively known to

limit delta, so for vega to guage and augment overall implied volatity,

such by bullish greed or bearish fear, as like sentiments are given by

some extent, extensible measures.

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 12.03.2006 21:31:20 von Flasherly
Phil Schuman wrote:

> interesting emotional response to the graph -

> Using log, it's a flat line increase on percentages,

> but the linear shows the actual delta increase vs the percentage.

>

> If my 100 shares of a stock went from $2 to $4 - I gained $200

> but if it went from $4 to $8 - I gained $400

> I think I'd cheer more for the 2nd gainer :)

Logarithmic is prefered by technical traders on funds and stocks,

linear by commodities and short-selling issues. As logarithmic

distances decrease, assets increase. When something increases a bit, in

addition, to two bits on the dollar, one bit has effectively "moved"

through an initial two-bit asset, to render a 50% profit at an

accumulative of 75cents. Yet, if an addition bit were to move through

a sum of 3 bits, it corresponds to 33% rendition at an accumulitive

total, as one dollar. Whereas a linear graph with the same premise

holds the latter movement identical to the former, as they represent a

sum difference of 25cents at equidistantly plotted juxtipositions. On

the logarithmic scale, noteworthy are where percentages reside for a

key to a short-selling strategist: that 50% is to be depicted for

significantly more than a 33% movement. The delta factor at change

"moves" as a result of valuation, through gamma, as a derivative for

its "speed" theta measures, were time factors effectively known to

limit delta, so for vega to guage and augment overall implied volatity,

such by bullish greed or bearish fear, as like sentiments are given by

some extent, extensible measures.

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 12.03.2006 22:42:41 von blash
Flasherly writes:

> Logarithmic is prefered by technical traders on funds and stocks,

> linear by commodities and short-selling issues. As logarithmic

> distances decrease, assets increase. When something increases a bit, in

> addition, to two bits on the dollar, one bit has effectively "moved"

> through an initial two-bit asset, to render a 50% profit at an

> accumulative of 75cents. Yet, if an addition bit were to move through

> a sum of 3 bits, it corresponds to 33% rendition at an accumulitive

> total, as one dollar. Whereas a linear graph with the same premise

> holds the latter movement identical to the former, as they represent a

> sum difference of 25cents at equidistantly plotted juxtipositions. On

> the logarithmic scale, noteworthy are where percentages reside for a

> key to a short-selling strategist: that 50% is to be depicted for

> significantly more than a 33% movement. The delta factor at change

> "moves" as a result of valuation, through gamma, as a derivative for

> its "speed" theta measures, were time factors effectively known to

> limit delta, so for vega to guage and augment overall implied volatity,

> such by bullish greed or bearish fear, as like sentiments are given by

> some extent, extensible measures.

For us members of "The Great Unwashed", would you please give an example

of how this will make someone a $........

What stock should be bought at the market at tommorows' opening and what

should it do through any specified time-frame of your choice(1 day, 1 week,

1 month, etc.)???

## Re: Quicken/Yahoo charting - Linear vs Logx

am 12.03.2006 22:42:41 von blash
Flasherly writes:

> Logarithmic is prefered by technical traders on funds and stocks,

> linear by commodities and short-selling issues. As logarithmic

> distances decrease, assets increase. When something increases a bit, in

> addition, to two bits on the dollar, one bit has effectively "moved"

> through an initial two-bit asset, to render a 50% profit at an

> accumulative of 75cents. Yet, if an addition bit were to move through

> a sum of 3 bits, it corresponds to 33% rendition at an accumulitive

> total, as one dollar. Whereas a linear graph with the same premise

> holds the latter movement identical to the former, as they represent a

> sum difference of 25cents at equidistantly plotted juxtipositions. On

> the logarithmic scale, noteworthy are where percentages reside for a

> key to a short-selling strategist: that 50% is to be depicted for

> significantly more than a 33% movement. The delta factor at change

> "moves" as a result of valuation, through gamma, as a derivative for

> its "speed" theta measures, were time factors effectively known to

> limit delta, so for vega to guage and augment overall implied volatity,

> such by bullish greed or bearish fear, as like sentiments are given by

> some extent, extensible measures.

For us members of "The Great Unwashed", would you please give an example

of how this will make someone a $........

What stock should be bought at the market at tommorows' opening and what

should it do through any specified time-frame of your choice(1 day, 1 week,

1 month, etc.)???