Where is the UK going?

Long article good read:

How Long Will America Lead the World?



Working in IT, I've seen many jobs have been outsourced, also worry about my
own role. A few weeks back I met with old lawyer friend who tells me that
to deduce cost's his firm have outsourced their legal secretary. All
communication is via Internet, recording of voice memo's. Once the secretary
has completed the document and he is emailed location of document with
password, he prints this off and posts it off, £25k/£30k saved.

With the low cost of bandwidth and reliability of the hardware and stability
of operating systems, support staff and developers can be based anywhere in
the world as they are able to remote control on to the users PC or server to
resolve problems.

As manufacturing has gone, services are gradually being transferred what is
the next wave, just can't see where we going, what is there for the future
work force in the UK? What is running this country, debt?

Re: Where is the UK going?

"Sim" <> wrote in message
news:
> Long article good read:
>
> How Long Will America Lead the World?
>
>
>
> Working in IT, I've seen many jobs have been outsourced, also worry about
> my own role. A few weeks back I met with old lawyer friend who tells me
> that to deduce cost's his firm have outsourced their legal secretary. All
> communication is via Internet, recording of voice memo's. Once the
> secretary has completed the document and he is emailed location of
> document with password, he prints this off and posts it off, £25k/£30k
> saved.
>
> With the low cost of bandwidth and reliability of the hardware and
> stability of operating systems, support staff and developers can be based
> anywhere in the world as they are able to remote control on to the users
> PC or server to resolve problems.
>
> As manufacturing has gone, services are gradually being transferred what
> is the next wave, just can't see where we going, what is there for the
> future work force in the UK? What is running this country, debt?
>
>



welcome to the Digital Networked Economy

Re: Where is the UK going?

South?

Re: Where is the UK going?

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Where is the UK going?

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:54:05 +0100, "Sim" <>
wrote:

>Long article good read:
>
>How Long Will America Lead the World?
>
>
>
>Working in IT, I've seen many jobs have been outsourced, also worry about my
>own role. A few weeks back I met with old lawyer friend who tells me that
>to deduce cost's his firm have outsourced their legal secretary. All
>communication is via Internet, recording of voice memo's. Once the secretary
>has completed the document and he is emailed location of document with
>password, he prints this off and posts it off, £25k/£30k saved.
>
>With the low cost of bandwidth and reliability of the hardware and stability
>of operating systems, support staff and developers can be based anywhere in
>the world as they are able to remote control on to the users PC or server to
>resolve problems.
>
>As manufacturing has gone, services are gradually being transferred what is
>the next wave, just can't see where we going, what is there for the future
>work force in the UK? What is running this country, debt?

I see Britain becoming two nations, one that still uses money and one
that doesn't. I know we have niche manufacturing but that can only
support niche communities. We have the financial firms in London but
sooner or later London is going to get fed up with being asked to
bankroll the rest of the UK so London, en masse or a piece at a time,
will relocate. We can't rely on it. The whole idea of everyone being
part of a consumer society is that the society overall makes enough
money to support everyone, those in work, those ill or infirm
included. For a consumer society to function, for it to make any kind
of sense, certain parameters must be in place. You have to have the
right ratio of workers to customers to available (local) work. That's
gone now.

BB

--

Re: Where is the UK going?

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:54:05 +0100, "Sim" <>
wrote:

>Long article good read:
>
>How Long Will America Lead the World?
>
>
>
>Working in IT, I've seen many jobs have been outsourced, also worry about my
>own role. A few weeks back I met with old lawyer friend who tells me that
>to deduce cost's his firm have outsourced their legal secretary. All
>communication is via Internet, recording of voice memo's. Once the secretary
>has completed the document and he is emailed location of document with
>password, he prints this off and posts it off, £25k/£30k saved.
>
>With the low cost of bandwidth and reliability of the hardware and stability
>of operating systems, support staff and developers can be based anywhere in
>the world as they are able to remote control on to the users PC or server to
>resolve problems.
>
>As manufacturing has gone, services are gradually being transferred what is
>the next wave, just can't see where we going, what is there for the future
>work force in the UK? What is running this country, debt?
>
Plumbing mate,train to be a plumber..it only takes a week to train and
you can earn £250,000 a year. Also train to be a bricklayer or
plasterer in only a week and earn similar amounts.

Oh hang on, i forgot,weve got lots of Polish plumbers, plasterers and
brick layers coming over here already.

Strange though, we dont seem to have any Polish lawyers, estate
agents, members of parliament, judges or any other similar
"professionals" coming over do we?

Seems like we will all have more leisure time on the dole, and why not
? Its a lifestyle choice these days.



Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

Re: Where is the UK going?

JF wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
> In message <>
> writes
>
>> As manufacturing has gone, services are gradually being transferred
>> what is
>> the next wave, just can't see where we going, what is there for the
>> future
>> work force in the UK? What is running this country, debt?
>
> In a nutshell -- yes. The one thing about the future is that it's always
> there to borrow from.


What on earth are you on, buddy?
Irma


Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita

Re: Where is the UK going?

On Holiday !!



>
> Working in IT, I've seen many jobs have been outsourced,

Yes, but jobs are also outsourced TO the UK.

> also worry about my
> own role. A few weeks back I met with old lawyer friend who tells me that
> to deduce cost's his firm have outsourced their legal secretary. All
> communication is via Internet, recording of voice memo's. Once the
secretary
> has completed the document and he is emailed location of document with
> password, he prints this off and posts it off, £25k/£30k saved.
>

So, this will lead to a normalisation of worldwide exchange rates and the
labour costs will be equalised.

> With the low cost of bandwidth and reliability of the hardware and
stability
> of operating systems, support staff and developers can be based anywhere
in
> the world as they are able to remote control on to the users PC or server
to
> resolve problems.
>

Yes, they can also be based in the uk.

> As manufacturing has gone,

Reduced, not gone

> services are gradually being transferred what is
> the next wave,

If it was *that* serious - where is the mass unemployment ?

> just can't see where we going, what is there for the future
> work force in the UK?

Lots of holidays :-)

> What is running this country, debt?

Financial services.

Re: Where is the UK going?

> Strange though, we dont seem to have any Polish lawyers, estate
> agents, members of parliament, judges or any other similar
> "professionals" coming over do we?
>

Good point, these characters are often quick to defend the rights of
those outsourcing others. Maybe it's time to begin outsourcing them. Would
we really miss the present judiciary and their spectacular failure, nay ,
lack of will to protect the public. Would we miss our highly paid
administrators of EU directives, our representatives, lol-- MPs?
Can you think of any group that wouldn't make a better job
of representing us? I'm sure that cosseted bastion of the left, the BBC
would be glad to see themselves outsourced, it would be in keep with their
agenda of "inclusivity" Or would they think that was a step too far?

Re: Where is the UK going?

, debt?
>
> Financial services.
>
>
Yes, flogging rip off pension policies, endowment policies and useless
clause ridden insurance policies, and collective funds to the hapless and
gullible.

Re: Where is the UK going?

"dave" <> wrote in message
news:%inhg.82101$
>
> welcome to the Digital Networked Economy
>

Unless you're Hewlett Packard in which case they're actually moving BACK to
working in the office. -


---
Sam

Re: Where is the UK going?

On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:25:46 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
<> wrote:

>
>On Holiday !!
>
>
>
>>
>> Working in IT, I've seen many jobs have been outsourced,
>
>Yes, but jobs are also outsourced TO the UK.
>
>> also worry about my
>> own role. A few weeks back I met with old lawyer friend who tells me that
>> to deduce cost's his firm have outsourced their legal secretary. All
>> communication is via Internet, recording of voice memo's. Once the
>secretary
>> has completed the document and he is emailed location of document with
>> password, he prints this off and posts it off, £25k/£30k saved.
>>
>
>So, this will lead to a normalisation of worldwide exchange rates and the
>labour costs will be equalised.
>
>> With the low cost of bandwidth and reliability of the hardware and
>stability
>> of operating systems, support staff and developers can be based anywhere
>in
>> the world as they are able to remote control on to the users PC or server
>to
>> resolve problems.
>>
>
>Yes, they can also be based in the uk.
>
>> As manufacturing has gone,
>
>Reduced, not gone
>
>> services are gradually being transferred what is
>> the next wave,
>
>If it was *that* serious - where is the mass unemployment ?

It's disguised at university learning for meaningless degrees, getting
deeper into debt as it does so. It's disguised on training courses for
non-jobs. It's disguised on sickness benefits. It's disguised by
employment, if you can call it that, in the public sector. Soon when
Gordon Brown starts his youth organisations, many of the younger
unemployed will be disguised there.

It's there, it's just hidden from immediate view. The problem we have
as a country is that it costs us a lot more money to maintain training
schemes and the like than it would to come right out and admit they're
all useless and decant everybody currently in disguised unemployment
back on the dole. That would be the best thing to do in the interests
of the country. It would be very bad politically, though, as they'd
have t admit things aren't going so well. in fact, very, very badly.
Our money is spent to disguise from us the facts about how badly our
money is spent.
And don't moanl Chances are you voted for this - don't say you didn't
know what you were doing!


>> just can't see where we going, what is there for the future
>> work force in the UK?
>
>Lots of holidays :-)

Lots of no chance to empower or sustain oneself through work. Reason
being, too many people, not enough paying work due to no customers due
to our not being able to compete internationally.

>> What is running this country, debt?
>
>Financial services.

It's unlikely they'll last, though. Gordon seems to be sniffing round
London now to get more taxes out of them by closing down loopholes.

See, if you're Gordon, you've got a problem. You need taxes now, not
next year or the year after, because you've got bills to pay for all
the benefits people are receiving and the public sector wage bill. The
only people who can fund that are, or should we say, is, London. So,
London has to pay more taxes. This is a must as without the money
London provides, the rest of the country, which by comparison provides
very little, simply ceases to function as an economy. Eeek! End of the
consumer society for Blighty - that won't look too good on the old
political resume. So Gordon has to tax London more, it's the only
significantly earning sector in the UK, but make his getaway before
the resulting chickens come home to roost. But getting back to the
problem, London itself doesn't actually owe the rest of the country
anything. If you upset it, it'll move. Take a few years, but it'll
move. Scatter round the globe, maybe, or get a boat, work from there.
Buy, say, a small island. Somewhere warm. Sounding good already, isn't
it?
So say London's gone; how does Britain continue to function as part of
the global economy? Well, it doesn't, but that doesn't bother our
Gordo, because he's long gone. He's been PM for a couple of years,
years he's spent spending our money globe-trotting establishing
himself as a world statesman, (bit like that recent 9 billion pound
jaunt over in Africa), and he's now Grand Umpah of Lumpahs in Pooh-Bah
Land (formerly Europe).
And we've paid for it.
And, we voted for it to happen too!

BB
--

Re: Where is the UK going?

"tarquinlinbin" wrote
> Plumbing mate,train to be a plumber..it only takes a week to
> train and you can earn £250,000 a year. Also train to be a
> bricklayer or plasterer in only a week and earn similar amounts.

Or train to be all three and get £750,000 a year?
And it'd still take less than a month to train for all of them!

Re: Where is the UK going?

We now live in the global economy where the big corporations now
dictate the success or failure of nation economies. Many of the British
institutions are now in the hands of foreign investors and owners. And
everyone from lawyers to supermarkets are competing in a knifedge
competition for business. The shareholders and lenders to business
demand maximum profit which means that overheads and expenses in
business has to be addressed.

Even in local government councils are under pressure due to lack of
funding from central government to keep their council tax down so they
will cut overheads and services. The government also has to balance the
books against an increasingly expensive NHS, pensions and increasing
deficit so are cutting ministry budgets. The only good thing about
governments is they can see off problems with loans going over decades
or centuries. The man in the street cannot do this and nor can most
businesses that exist year from year or even days to day to survive.

In the global economy Britain has an influx of workers from other
countries who are willing to work for much less and lower living
standards than your average British worker. Also the big companies know
that they can keep wages down if they employ people in a different
country to do the same thing but on a cheaper basis. Places like China,
Taiwan and India are going to be the big winners in the global economy.

Take my pet subject, the baby boomer ... those aged 42 - 60 years of
age. These guys have always been spoilt and were able to have a good
time in their youth, spend a high life as yuppies by spending big sums
on the latest hi-tech toys, cars and fashion and generally are highly
materialistic and spend happy. The boomer faces huge debts to finance
the lifestyle they are always used to, a problem of pensions and the
loss of jobs to lower paid workers in other countries. It is a
generation that is going to end in serious trouble.

The generation x and y's are also in problems as they face huge debts
from student loans, face huge competition for jobs against equally
capable people from other countries, cannot get on the housing ladder,
face huge council bills, rent, fuel...
They have also been tempted by easy credit to spend spend spend and
are also been influenced into gambling and making serious losses.

We have lost two major employers in the Suffolk town of Haverhill in
recent weeks due to the same global economy and all those workers have
little prospects. Manufacturing in UK has been in recession for several
years but the consumer recession has yet to happen as these guys are
spending on the back of credit cards, loans and the increasing prices
of their homes. The whole financial and economic fabric of Britain is
insecure and it will take only one serious reversal in the house
market, stock market or other area and the house of cards will
crumble... fast.

For the generation x and y the answer is to get out of Britain and head
east to places like Hong Kong and India. The future is bright in those
countries. There is no future in Britain.

The BNP will also be a big winner in the equation as they are putting
forward a form protectionism, isolationism and generally trying to
protect the worker and Britain. However even the BNP will fail as they
will rule a country in absolute poverty and the wealth will be
elsewhere along with all the bright young minds that were Britain's
future.

Mabon Dane

Re: Where is the UK going?

Miss L. Toe wrote:
> On Holiday !!
>
>
>
>>
>> Working in IT, I've seen many jobs have been outsourced,
>
> Yes, but jobs are also outsourced TO the UK.

Very few.

>> also worry about my
>> own role. A few weeks back I met with old lawyer friend who tells
>> me that to deduce cost's his firm have outsourced their legal
>> secretary. All communication is via Internet, recording of voice
>> memo's. Once the secretary has completed the document and he is
>> emailed location of document with password, he prints this off and
>> posts it off, £25k/£30k saved.
>>
>
> So, this will lead to a normalisation of worldwide exchange rates and
> the labour costs will be equalised.

But not before the UK is reduced to the status of a banana republic, with
equivalent income.

>> With the low cost of bandwidth and reliability of the hardware and
>> stability of operating systems, support staff and developers can be
>> based anywhere in the world as they are able to remote control on to
>> the users PC or server to resolve problems.
>>
>
> Yes, they can also be based in the uk.

But in general aren't.

>> As manufacturing has gone,
>
> Reduced, not gone

Not quite, not yet. Much of the little that remains is foreign owned or
controlled.

>> services are gradually being transferred what is
>> the next wave,
>
> If it was *that* serious - where is the mass unemployment ?

Disguised as civil service jobs with guaranteed, inflation proof, final
salary pensions at 60.

>> just can't see where we going, what is there for the future
>> work force in the UK?
>
> Lots of holidays :-)
>
>> What is running this country, debt?
>
> Financial services.

Which means debt.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make people
believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

Re: Where is the UK going?

Big Bill wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:25:46 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
> <> wrote:
>
>>> What is running this country, debt?
>>
>> Financial services.
>
> It's unlikely they'll last, though. Gordon seems to be sniffing round
> London now to get more taxes out of them by closing down loopholes.
>
> See, if you're Gordon, you've got a problem. You need taxes now, not
> next year or the year after, because you've got bills to pay for all
> the benefits people are receiving and the public sector wage bill. The
> only people who can fund that are, or should we say, is, London. So,
> London has to pay more taxes. This is a must as without the money
> London provides, the rest of the country, which by comparison provides
> very little, simply ceases to function as an economy. Eeek! End of the
> consumer society for Blighty - that won't look too good on the old
> political resume. So Gordon has to tax London more, it's the only
> significantly earning sector in the UK, but make his getaway before
> the resulting chickens come home to roost. But getting back to the
> problem, London itself doesn't actually owe the rest of the country
> anything. If you upset it, it'll move. Take a few years, but it'll
> move. Scatter round the globe, maybe, or get a boat, work from there.
> Buy, say, a small island. Somewhere warm. Sounding good already, isn't
> it?
> So say London's gone; how does Britain continue to function as part of
> the global economy? Well, it doesn't, but that doesn't bother our
> Gordo, because he's long gone. He's been PM for a couple of years,
> years he's spent spending our money globe-trotting establishing
> himself as a world statesman, (bit like that recent 9 billion pound
> jaunt over in Africa), and he's now Grand Umpah of Lumpahs in Pooh-Bah
> Land (formerly Europe).
> And we've paid for it.
> And, we voted for it to happen too!

Not me, I didn't vote for this lot of incompetents. Trouble is I can't see
the other lot doing any better. They seem to be turning themselves into
clones of this lot.

Broadly agree with your above summary, except I would be surprised if this
lot do get re-elected this next time so Gordo is unlikely to get his couple
of years as PM.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make people
believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

Re: Where is the UK going?

Miss L. Toe wrote:
|| On Holiday !!
||
||
||
||
|| If it was *that* serious - where is the mass unemployment ?
||


Just for starters... people now on incapacity benefit circa 2.8 million,
latest official unemployment figures 1.59 million, since New-Labour came to
power an extra 1 million mopped up in government funded employment, well
over a million manufacturing jobs lost since 1997...



||| just can't see where we going, what is there for the future
||| work force in the UK?
||
|| Lots of holidays :-)
||
||| What is running this country, debt?
||
|| Financial services.

Re: Where is the UK going?

This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

---910079544-480167966-1149697718=:20045
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006, Sim wrote:

> Working in IT, I've seen many jobs have been outsourced, also worry
> about my own role. A few weeks back I met with old lawyer friend who
> tells me that to deduce cost's his firm have outsourced their legal
> secretary. All communication is via Internet, recording of voice memo's.
> Once the secretary has completed the document and he is emailed location
> of document with password, he prints this off and posts it off,
> £25k/£30k saved.

One day, lawyers are going to realise that they can use those keyboard
things attatched to their computers to actually type letters themselves.

The thing is, outsourcing generally doesn't deliver anywhere near the
savings that the hype claimed, since the separation drastically reduces
the quality of the work. There are a few kinds of work which can be
outsourced fairly well - call centres, for instance - but only a few. We
don't need to worry about the UK's jobs all being outsourced.

We do need to worry about Indian and Chinese companies just straight
outcompeting ours, though.

tom

--
Don't trust the laws of men. Trust the laws of mathematics.
---910079544-480167966-1149697718=:20045--

Re: Where is the UK going?

> We do need to worry about Indian and Chinese companies just straight
> outcompeting ours, though.

And the best way to deal with that is to own them !

Either by moving our manufacturing over there or by buying stock in the
developing world.

Re: Where is the UK going?

Tom Anderson wrote:
> One day, lawyers are going to realise that they can use those keyboard
> things attatched to their computers to actually type letters themselves.

It is not really cost effective for a lawyer charging 300 UKP/hr to type
letters or judgements. Getting good legal secretaries is not easy and
whether the work can be done accurately enough by someone in a 3rd world
country is far from obvious. Some big accountants are doing the same
with a lot of their work.

> There are a few kinds of work which can be
> outsourced fairly well - call centres, for instance - but only a few.

"fairly" being the key point, the Indian call centers I've spoken
(Lloyds, Citibank) to have been appauling. I think the whole call center
thing has been overblown.

Re: Where is the UK going?

On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:03:20 +0100, "Old Codger"
<> wrote:

>Big Bill wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:25:46 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
>> <> wrote:
>>
>>>> What is running this country, debt?
>>>
>>> Financial services.
>>
>> It's unlikely they'll last, though. Gordon seems to be sniffing round
>> London now to get more taxes out of them by closing down loopholes.
>>
>> See, if you're Gordon, you've got a problem. You need taxes now, not
>> next year or the year after, because you've got bills to pay for all
>> the benefits people are receiving and the public sector wage bill. The
>> only people who can fund that are, or should we say, is, London. So,
>> London has to pay more taxes. This is a must as without the money
>> London provides, the rest of the country, which by comparison provides
>> very little, simply ceases to function as an economy. Eeek! End of the
>> consumer society for Blighty - that won't look too good on the old
>> political resume. So Gordon has to tax London more, it's the only
>> significantly earning sector in the UK, but make his getaway before
>> the resulting chickens come home to roost. But getting back to the
>> problem, London itself doesn't actually owe the rest of the country
>> anything. If you upset it, it'll move. Take a few years, but it'll
>> move. Scatter round the globe, maybe, or get a boat, work from there.
>> Buy, say, a small island. Somewhere warm. Sounding good already, isn't
>> it?
>> So say London's gone; how does Britain continue to function as part of
>> the global economy? Well, it doesn't, but that doesn't bother our
>> Gordo, because he's long gone. He's been PM for a couple of years,
>> years he's spent spending our money globe-trotting establishing
>> himself as a world statesman, (bit like that recent 9 billion pound
>> jaunt over in Africa), and he's now Grand Umpah of Lumpahs in Pooh-Bah
>> Land (formerly Europe).
>> And we've paid for it.
>> And, we voted for it to happen too!
>
>Not me, I didn't vote for this lot of incompetents. Trouble is I can't see
>the other lot doing any better. They seem to be turning themselves into
>clones of this lot.
>
>Broadly agree with your above summary, except I would be surprised if this
>lot do get re-elected this next time so Gordo is unlikely to get his couple
>of years as PM.


I betya there is every chance that the current lot get voted back in.

There are millions of potential Labour voters who hate TB, just
waiting for somone else to vote for. If the handover to GB is handled
correctly I don't think the tories have a hope at the next election
and any ideas that they have is just whishful thinking IMHO.

tim

Re: Where is the UK going?

Sam Smith wrote:
> Unless you're Hewlett Packard in which case they're actually moving BACK to
> working in the office. -
>

There is a suggestion they are doing this prior to outsourcing the jobs.

Moral of the story, never let a middle-aged, power dressing, blonde
bimbo run your company (into the ground).

Re: Where is the UK going?

> As manufacturing has gone, services are gradually being transferred what
> is the next wave, just can't see where we going, what is there for the
> future work force in the UK? What is running this country, debt?

In a nutshell. It is a debt that can never, and isn't expected
to ever be paid back. The money that is lent out is created as
a simple bookkeeping entry by the banks. But accumulates as
an interest-bearing debt. Thus the amount of money in circulation
is always less than the amount owed to the banks.

More worrying than the personal debt levels reached, is what is
happening on a global scale. You do realise the world is in the
biggest liquidity bubble *ever*. Banking institutions have
had access to money at zero percent interest since the early
nineties. And they have been borrowing it by the truckload,
in seemingly limitless quantities.

It is fuelling bubbles everywhere you look. Private equity, hedge
funds, the housing market. Interest rates are now on the rise and
at some point you can expect a financial disaster that makes
the great depression look like a nice picnic.

I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.

Re: Where is the UK going?

"Consultant Bob" <> wrote in message
news:NrVhg.41129$
> > As manufacturing has gone, services are gradually being transferred what
> > is the next wave, just can't see where we going, what is there for the
> > future work force in the UK? What is running this country, debt?
>
> In a nutshell. It is a debt that can never, and isn't expected
> to ever be paid back. The money that is lent out is created as
> a simple bookkeeping entry by the banks. But accumulates as
> an interest-bearing debt. Thus the amount of money in circulation
> is always less than the amount owed to the banks.
>
> More worrying than the personal debt levels reached, is what is
> happening on a global scale. You do realise the world is in the
> biggest liquidity bubble *ever*. Banking institutions have
> had access to money at zero percent interest since the early
> nineties. And they have been borrowing it by the truckload,
> in seemingly limitless quantities.
>
> It is fuelling bubbles everywhere you look. Private equity, hedge
> funds, the housing market. Interest rates are now on the rise and
> at some point you can expect a financial disaster that makes
> the great depression look like a nice picnic.
>
> I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
>
>

So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?

Re: Where is the UK going?

> "Consultant Bob" wrote
> > ... at some point you can expect a financial disaster
> > that makes the great depression look like a nice picnic.
> >
> > I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
>
"Miss L. Toe" wrote
> So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?

The baked beans sound useful, but
what would you do with the gold...?

Re: Where is the UK going?

"Tim" <
> > "Consultant Bob" wrote
> > > ... at some point you can expect a financial disaster
> > > that makes the great depression look like a nice picnic.
> > >
> > > I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
> >
> "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
>
> The baked beans sound useful, but
> what would you do with the gold...?

Buy bread, a toaster, and a wind power generator :-)

I guess in the fictitious event of a real global economic meltdown, gold
would fairly quickly again become the standard currency that it has been for
millenia.

Re: Where is the UK going?

Miss L. Toe wrote:

> "Tim" <
>
>>>"Consultant Bob" wrote
>>>
>>>>... at some point you can expect a financial disaster
>>>>that makes the great depression look like a nice picnic.
>>>>
>>>>I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
>>>
>>"Miss L. Toe" wrote
>>
>>>So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
>>
>>The baked beans sound useful, but
>>what would you do with the gold...?
>
>
> Buy bread, a toaster, and a wind power generator :-)
>
> I guess in the fictitious event of a real global economic meltdown, gold
> would fairly quickly again become the standard currency that it has been for
> millenia.
>
>

More likely sneak in a few weapons and a lot of ammunition.

Re: Where is the UK going?

> > > "Consultant Bob" wrote
> > > > ... at some point you can expect a financial disaster
> > > > that makes the great depression look like a nice picnic.
> > > >
> > > > I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
> > >
> > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
>
> "Tim" wrot
> > The baked beans sound useful, but
> > what would you do with the gold...?
>
"Miss L. Toe" wrote
> Buy bread, a toaster, and a wind power generator :-)

Who do you think would give up those items
for a bit of gold? Wouldn't they be wanting to
use the bread/toaster/generator themselves?

They wouldn't be able to eat your gold, would they?! :-(

"Miss L. Toe" wrote
> I guess in the fictitious event of a real global economic
> meltdown, gold would fairly quickly again become
> the standard currency that it has been for millenia.

Why would you think that? It hasn't really got
any more instrinsic value than dollar bills, has it?!

Re: Where is the UK going?

> >>>"Consultant Bob" wrote
> >>>>... at some point you can expect a financial disaster
> >>>>that makes the great depression look like a nice picnic.
> >>>>
> >>>>I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
> >>>
> >>"Miss L. Toe" wrote
> >>>So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
> >>
> > "Tim" wrote
> >>The baked beans sound useful, but
> >>what would you do with the gold...?
> >
> Miss L. Toe wrote:
> > Buy bread, a toaster, and a wind power generator :-)
> >
> > I guess in the fictitious event of a real global economic
> > meltdown, gold would fairly quickly again become
> > the standard currency that it has been for millenia.
>
"Frank F. Matthews" wrote
> More likely sneak in a few weapons and a lot of ammunition.

Sounds much more useful than a bit of gold!
[In the event of economic meltdown.]

Re: Where is the UK going?

"Tim" <
> > > > "Consultant Bob" wrote
> > > > > ... at some point you can expect a financial disaster
> > > > > that makes the great depression look like a nice picnic.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
> > > >
> > > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > > So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
> >
> > "Tim" wrot
> > > The baked beans sound useful, but
> > > what would you do with the gold...?
> >
> "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > Buy bread, a toaster, and a wind power generator :-)
>
> Who do you think would give up those items
> for a bit of gold? Wouldn't they be wanting to
> use the bread/toaster/generator themselves?
>
> They wouldn't be able to eat your gold, would they?! :-(

No, but I could sell them some baked beans to get my gold back :-)

>
> "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > I guess in the fictitious event of a real global economic
> > meltdown, gold would fairly quickly again become
> > the standard currency that it has been for millenia.
>
> Why would you think that? It hasn't really got
> any more instrinsic value than dollar bills, has it?!

We are assuming that there has been total economic meltdown and dollar bills
aren't worth the paper they are written on - In which case any metal that
can be used for any purpose has more value than dollar bills.

Re: Where is the UK going?

> > > > > "Consultant Bob" wrote
> > > > > > ... at some point you can expect a financial disaster
> > > > > > that makes the great depression look like a nice picnic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
> > > > >
> > > > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > > > So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
> > >
> > > "Tim" wrote
> > > > The baked beans sound useful, but
> > > > what would you do with the gold...?
> > >
> > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > Buy bread, a toaster, and a wind power generator :-)
> >
> "Tim" wrote
> > Who do you think would give up those items
> > for a bit of gold? Wouldn't they be wanting to
> > use the bread/toaster/generator themselves?
> >
> > They wouldn't be able to eat your gold, would they?! :-(
>
"Miss L. Toe" wrote
> No, but I could sell them some baked beans to get my gold back :-)

Why would you want it back? :-(
What could you *use* it for?

> > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > I guess in the fictitious event of a real global economic
> > > meltdown, gold would fairly quickly again become
> > > the standard currency that it has been for millenia.
> >
> "Tim" wrote
> > Why would you think that? It hasn't really got
> > any more instrinsic value than dollar bills, has it?!
>
"Miss L. Toe" wrote
> We are assuming that there has been total economic
> meltdown and dollar bills aren't worth the paper they
> are written on - In which case any metal that can be
> used for any purpose has more value than dollar bills.

Well, the dollar bills could be used to keep the fire going.
What could anyone use the gold for, apart from making jewellery?

Re: Where is the UK going?

"Tim" <> wrote in message
news:
> > > > > > "Consultant Bob" wrote
> > > > > > > ... at some point you can expect a financial disaster
> > > > > > > that makes the great depression look like a nice picnic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
> > > > > >
> > > > > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > > > > So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
> > > >
> > > > "Tim" wrote
> > > > > The baked beans sound useful, but
> > > > > what would you do with the gold...?
> > > >
> > > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > > Buy bread, a toaster, and a wind power generator :-)
> > >
> > "Tim" wrote
> > > Who do you think would give up those items
> > > for a bit of gold? Wouldn't they be wanting to
> > > use the bread/toaster/generator themselves?
> > >
> > > They wouldn't be able to eat your gold, would they?! :-(
> >
> "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > No, but I could sell them some baked beans to get my gold back :-)
>
> Why would you want it back? :-(
> What could you *use* it for?
>
> > > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > > I guess in the fictitious event of a real global economic
> > > > meltdown, gold would fairly quickly again become
> > > > the standard currency that it has been for millenia.
> > >
> > "Tim" wrote
> > > Why would you think that? It hasn't really got
> > > any more instrinsic value than dollar bills, has it?!
> >
> "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > We are assuming that there has been total economic
> > meltdown and dollar bills aren't worth the paper they
> > are written on - In which case any metal that can be
> > used for any purpose has more value than dollar bills.
>
> Well, the dollar bills could be used to keep the fire going.
> What could anyone use the gold for, apart from making jewellery?

Trading !!

What happens if I have excess baked beans today and someone wants them and
yet I have enough bread for the rest of the week and wont need any until
next week ?

Re: Where is the UK going?

> > > > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > > > I guess in the fictitious event of a real global economic
> > > > > meltdown, gold would fairly quickly again become
> > > > > the standard currency that it has been for millenia.
> > > >
> > > "Tim" wrote
> > > > Why would you think that? It hasn't really got
> > > > any more instrinsic value than dollar bills, has it?!
> > >
> > "Miss L. Toe" wrote
> > > We are assuming that there has been total economic
> > > meltdown and dollar bills aren't worth the paper they
> > > are written on - In which case any metal that can be
> > > used for any purpose has more value than dollar bills.
> >
> "Tim" wrote
> > Well, the dollar bills could be used to keep the fire going.
> > What could anyone use the gold for, apart from making jewellery?
>
"Miss L. Toe" wrote
> Trading !!
>
> What happens if I have excess baked beans today and
> someone wants them and yet I have enough bread for the
> rest of the week and wont need any until next week ?

You want to find something that people will accept
later, and which doesn't deteriorate like food does.

But why should someone accept your *gold*
later, rather than the dollar bills? Effectively,
they are *both* just acting as an "IOU"...

You can't really use either for any
[basic survival] purpose, can you?

Re: Where is the UK going?

Tim wrote:

>>>>>"Consultant Bob" wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>... at some point you can expect a financial disaster
>>>>>>that makes the great depression look like a nice picnic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
>>>>>
>>>>"Miss L. Toe" wrote
>>>>
>>>>>So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
>>>>
>>>"Tim" wrote
>>>
>>>>The baked beans sound useful, but
>>>>what would you do with the gold...?
>>>
>>Miss L. Toe wrote:
>>
>>>Buy bread, a toaster, and a wind power generator :-)
>>>
>>>I guess in the fictitious event of a real global economic
>>>meltdown, gold would fairly quickly again become
>>>the standard currency that it has been for millenia.
>>
> "Frank F. Matthews" wrote
>
>>More likely sneak in a few weapons and a lot of ammunition.
>
>
> Sounds much more useful than a bit of gold!
> [In the event of economic meltdown.]
>
>
>

Given the social disruption involved it would probably increase the
chance of your getting the gold as well.

Re: Where is the UK going?

On Thursday, in article
<44884ed4$0$11193$>
"Miss L. Toe" wrote:
>"Tim" <> wrote in message
>news:
....
>> "Miss L. Toe" wrote
>> > We are assuming that there has been total economic
>> > meltdown and dollar bills aren't worth the paper they
>> > are written on - In which case any metal that can be
>> > used for any purpose has more value than dollar bills.
>>
>> Well, the dollar bills could be used to keep the fire going.
>> What could anyone use the gold for, apart from making jewellery?
>
>Trading !!
>
>What happens if I have excess baked beans today and someone wants them and
>yet I have enough bread for the rest of the week and wont need any until
>next week ?

Unless you have melted down the gold into small 'coins' that others will
_trust_, they are no use, unless there are many people able to trade things.
Look back over the Middle and Dark Ages History about coins and what happened
to them. Without a standard you cn forget it.

Most of todays society do not have survival skills (start with killing
an animal), and are like the blind masses of Day of the Triffids.

After a while where are you going to get baked beans anyway as in UK the
raw product is shipped in, with economic meltdown who is going to find
a way to pay for that.

What you need is as many as possible of food stocks, tools,
weapons/ammunition, clean water supply, energy supply. If living in a city
most will not be able to exchange anything useful, as an Ipod is no use if
you cannot guarantee any energy to drive it or its associated items.

Unless you have access to something like 3 acres per person, you will not
be able to sustain crops/animals. A lot of our food and energy is IMPORTED.
There are nowhere near enough trees and like to support fossil fuel burning
without a guaranteed energy supply to gather it (oil/electricity).

--
Paul Carpenter |
<> PC Services
<> GNU H8 & mailing list info
<> For those web sites you hate

Re: Where is the UK going?

tim(not at home) wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:03:20 +0100, "Old Codger"
> <> wrote:
>
>> Big Bill wrote:
>>> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:25:46 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
>>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> What is running this country, debt?
>>>>
>>>> Financial services.
>>>
>>> It's unlikely they'll last, though. Gordon seems to be sniffing
>>> round London now to get more taxes out of them by closing down
>>> loopholes.
>>>
>>> See, if you're Gordon, you've got a problem. You need taxes now, not
>>> next year or the year after, because you've got bills to pay for all
>>> the benefits people are receiving and the public sector wage bill.
>>> The only people who can fund that are, or should we say, is,
>>> London. So, London has to pay more taxes. This is a must as without
>>> the money London provides, the rest of the country, which by
>>> comparison provides very little, simply ceases to function as an
>>> economy. Eeek! End of the consumer society for Blighty - that won't
>>> look too good on the old political resume. So Gordon has to tax
>>> London more, it's the only significantly earning sector in the UK,
>>> but make his getaway before the resulting chickens come home to
>>> roost. But getting back to the problem, London itself doesn't
>>> actually owe the rest of the country anything. If you upset it,
>>> it'll move. Take a few years, but it'll move. Scatter round the
>>> globe, maybe, or get a boat, work from there. Buy, say, a small
>>> island. Somewhere warm. Sounding good already, isn't it?
>>> So say London's gone; how does Britain continue to function as part
>>> of the global economy? Well, it doesn't, but that doesn't bother our
>>> Gordo, because he's long gone. He's been PM for a couple of years,
>>> years he's spent spending our money globe-trotting establishing
>>> himself as a world statesman, (bit like that recent 9 billion pound
>>> jaunt over in Africa), and he's now Grand Umpah of Lumpahs in
>>> Pooh-Bah Land (formerly Europe).
>>> And we've paid for it.
>>> And, we voted for it to happen too!
>>
>> Not me, I didn't vote for this lot of incompetents. Trouble is I
>> can't see the other lot doing any better. They seem to be turning
>> themselves into clones of this lot.
>>
>> Broadly agree with your above summary, except I would be surprised
>> if this lot do get re-elected this next time so Gordo is unlikely to
>> get his couple of years as PM.
>
>
> I betya there is every chance that the current lot get voted back in.
>
> There are millions of potential Labour voters who hate TB, just
> waiting for somone else to vote for. If the handover to GB is handled
> correctly I don't think the tories have a hope at the next election
> and any ideas that they have is just whishful thinking IMHO.

You could be right. I certainly don't think young Dave could win an
election. Little Tone, or his mate? Gordon might lose. That I believe is
the current opinion poll slant, but it is not guaranteed.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make people
believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

Re: Where is the UK going?

>> What happens if I have excess baked beans today and
>> someone wants them and yet I have enough bread for the
>> rest of the week and wont need any until next week ?
>
> You want to find something that people will accept
> later, and which doesn't deteriorate like food does.
>
> But why should someone accept your *gold*
> later, rather than the dollar bills? Effectively,
> they are *both* just acting as an "IOU"...
>
> You can't really use either for any
> [basic survival] purpose, can you?

A dollar bill is a piece of paper (based on debt), the intrinsic value
of a piece of a paper is virtually nothing.

Gold *does* have intrinsic value. The supply is fixed (more gold
may be mined but at a very slow rate).

If the situation was really bad, gold alone wouldn't be much comfort
I agree. But imho, it is the best bet for preserving what wealth you have
through the coming shit storm.

Food, weapons, and tools might be of more immediate value to you.

Re: Where is the UK going?

> After a while where are you going to get baked beans anyway as in UK the
> raw product is shipped in, with economic meltdown who is going to find
> a way to pay for that.
>
> What you need is as many as possible of food stocks, tools,
> weapons/ammunition, clean water supply, energy supply. If living in a city
> most will not be able to exchange anything useful, as an Ipod is no use if
> you cannot guarantee any energy to drive it or its associated items.
>
> Unless you have access to something like 3 acres per person, you will not
> be able to sustain crops/animals. A lot of our food and energy is
> IMPORTED.
> There are nowhere near enough trees and like to support fossil fuel
> burning
> without a guaranteed energy supply to gather it (oil/electricity).

We are facing a serious problem.

www.peakoil.com

Re: Where is the UK going?

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 14:37:06 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
<> wrote:

>
>"Consultant Bob" <> wrote in message
>news:NrVhg.41129$
>> > As manufacturing has gone, services are gradually being transferred what
>> > is the next wave, just can't see where we going, what is there for the
>> > future work force in the UK? What is running this country, debt?
>>
>> In a nutshell. It is a debt that can never, and isn't expected
>> to ever be paid back. The money that is lent out is created as
>> a simple bookkeeping entry by the banks. But accumulates as
>> an interest-bearing debt. Thus the amount of money in circulation
>> is always less than the amount owed to the banks.
>>
>> More worrying than the personal debt levels reached, is what is
>> happening on a global scale. You do realise the world is in the
>> biggest liquidity bubble *ever*. Banking institutions have
>> had access to money at zero percent interest since the early
>> nineties. And they have been borrowing it by the truckload,
>> in seemingly limitless quantities.
>>
>> It is fuelling bubbles everywhere you look. Private equity, hedge
>> funds, the housing market. Interest rates are now on the rise and
>> at some point you can expect a financial disaster that makes
>> the great depression look like a nice picnic.
>>
>> I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
>>
>>
>
>So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
>

No, gold and books on farming.

BB
--

Re: Where is the UK going?

Big Bill wrote:
|| On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 14:37:06 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
|| <> wrote:
||
|||
||| "Consultant Bob" <> wrote in message
||| news:NrVhg.41129$
||||
|||| It is fuelling bubbles everywhere you look. Private equity, hedge
|||| funds, the housing market. Interest rates are now on the rise and
|||| at some point you can expect a financial disaster that makes
|||| the great depression look like a nice picnic.
||||
|||| I would set your aspirations for the future on basic survival.
||||
||||
|||
||| So buy Gold bullion and tins of baked beans ?
|||
||
|| No, gold and books on farming.
||

A lot of good that will do, with this Government's ruthless determination to
bury half of England under concrete to accommodate our burgeoning
population.. our numbers have increased by more than nine million in my
lifetime!.. and is set to increase by several millions more in the coming
years.

Was it Prince Charles who said that the 'number one priority' of any country
must be the ability to feed itself in a time of crisis?.. if so, that's at
least one thing I have to agree with him on!



|| BB
|| --
||
||
||
||

Re: Where is the UK going?

> "Tim" wrote
> > But why should someone accept your *gold*
> > later, rather than the dollar bills? Effectively,
> > they are *both* just acting as an "IOU"...
> >
> > You can't really use either for any
> > [basic survival] purpose, can you?
>
"Robert Dunstable" wrote
> A dollar bill is a piece of paper (based on debt), the
> intrinsic value of a piece of a paper is virtually nothing.
>
> Gold *does* have intrinsic value...

Go on, tell us - what use does it have for basic survival?

"Robert Dunstable" wrote
> ... The supply is fixed (more gold may
> be mined but at a very slow rate).

After a total economic meltdown, wouldn't you
expect the supply of dollar bills to be fixed? ...
Or even decreasing, as they are not very durable!

"Robert Dunstable" wrote
> If the situation was really bad, gold alone wouldn't be much
> comfort I agree. But imho, it is the best bet for preserving
> what wealth you have through the coming shit storm.

*Only* if you can convince someone (who has something
which you want), to take the gold in exchange for it.

But why should they value it as highly as you do?
What could they do with it, if other people decided
that they wouldn't take it off them in exchange?

** Aren't you solely using it as an "IOU"? **

"Robert Dunstable" wrote
> Food, weapons, and tools might be of more immediate value to you.

Agreed.

Re: Where is the UK going?

davidof wrote:
> Sam Smith wrote:
> > Unless you're Hewlett Packard in which case they're actually moving BACK to
> > working in the office. -
> >
>
> There is a suggestion they are doing this prior to outsourcing the jobs.
>
> Moral of the story, never let a middle-aged, power dressing, blonde
> bimbo run your company (into the ground).

But let them your life!!